Dave Dexter, Jr. Capitol Records BEATLES questions (and some answers)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by Sam, May 16, 2003.

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  1. Sam

    Sam Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Dear members:
    Is Dave Dexter Jr., the one I believe is responsible for "remastering" all the American Beatles lp's, still alive? Has anyone ever interviewed him as to why he did what he did to the Beatles tapes? Also, were the mono capital records affected as well? When playing the mono capital pressings, I don't seem to hear the EQ'ing as much as I do with the stereo Capital releases. Did Capital records have this weird "echo" EQ'ing with their other releases such as Sinatra and The Beach Boys? How does DCC's "Pet Sounds" compare to an original mono? Did capital screw up domestic artists as well, or did they just confine it to that little band known as the Beatles?
     
  2. ascot

    ascot Senior Member

    Location:
    Wisconsin
    Well, I can't answer all of your questions, but I can tell you some things about the Beatles U.S. mono mixes.

    Some of the mono mixes are identical to the U.K. mono mixes. This is probably more true on the common singles and from Rubber Soul through Revolver. Others are fold downs of the U.K. stereo mixes, but without the added reverb. This is supposed to be the case on Meet the Beatles! and The Early Beatles. I believe the U.S. mono Help! soundtrack is a fold down of the U.S. stereo album. You can hear the added reverb on "Ticket to Ride", for example.

    Like the albums themselves, the U.S. mono mixes are a hodge podge collection of the correct mixes and something derived from another source.
     
  3. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Dave passed on. He was my friend so I don't want to trash him here (any more than I have I guess).

    He wrote all of the liner notes for my "Collectables" jazz series I did at MCA. He was a great A&R man and producer, not to mention a good writer. He did like his echo though. :)
     
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  4. Michael

    Michael I LOVE WIDE S-T-E-R-E-O!

    And so did I! Just a tad bit overboard on a few cuts! I actually liked the Dave Dexter Beatles! Ah, The memories...:laugh: Hey, we an always have the squeaky clean mixes anytime...Those Dexterized Lp's are forever implanted in my Early Beatles Memory Banks...:D
     
  5. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    I would have been more kindly disposed toward the man had he not trashed John Lennon not long after his murder in a Billboard column titled "Nobody's Perfect." At the time, Dexter was writing for the trade mag, and his columns were usually pretty good. This time, he used the brief space he was given to essentially trash JL for talking ill about the way the Beatles US catalog was handled(and sonically tampered with), though Dexter claimed Lennon had actually praised him for what he had done with those recordings in question(we will guess, essentially, the 1964 stuff with all the echo and 'verb). Well, John was always known to change his tune...
    yet hard to defend most of that needless excess, although I've always been the first to praise the overload on the "I Feel Fine"/"She's A Woman" 45(though even here a bit less would still have left an exciting record).

    I remember seeing Dexter's name on some Capitol jazz Lp's, too, though I'm too lazy to check and see if that was as producer, liner note writer, or both. I think what bugged me most of all, later on, was that Dexter's name would turn up on some british invasion albums, as on Peter & Gordon's A WORLD WITHOUT LOVE: "Produced for the U.S.A. by Dave Dexter, Jr." As if adding reverb and Eq amounted to 'production'; to add to the insult, the actual P&G producer at the time, Norman Newell, received no credit at all. Now, that may not have been Dexter's doing, but that's still his sole credit on the album cover, and it's a deception.

    I wish he were still with us; would have liked an opportunity for an explanation about that P&G credit, if nothing else. Maybe Capitol's misguided idea....

    ED:cool:
     
  6. PMC7027

    PMC7027 Forum Hall Of Fame

    I actually wrote a letter to Billboard (thast was published) in response to Dexter's article. I don't have it handy to quote, but I expressed an opinion that was anti-Dexter.
     
  7. Evan L

    Evan L Beatologist

    Location:
    Vermont
    There has been much anti-Dexter opinion expressed on this board. I have nothing against him personally(he was just doing his job), but I wonder if Dave might not have screwed around with the Beatles' recordings as much if he had realised their incredible staying power(and popularity even forty years later)? Who knows? I still prefer the original British mixes, since this was how the Beatles intended them to be.
     
  8. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

  9. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    Before knowing that Steve actually liked this guy, if I could have done a "Terminator 2" & gone back in time to prevent someone from being born, #1 would have been Hitler. #2 would have been Dave Dexter Jr.!

    BTW, with all of the ragging on Dexter over the years, I feel that equal time should be given to his Columbia/Epic equivalent, Manny Kelleem, the man responsible for ruining The Hollies & The Dave Clark 5's US releases even worse than Dave did to The Beatles.
     
  10. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Then you would never have had Capitol albums and singles by Peggy Lee, Woody Herman, Duke Ellington, Frank Sinatra, Stan Kenton, Nellie Lutcher, Kay Starr and Nat "King" Cole, 'cause he signed them to the label. Time to move on!
     
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  11. Sam

    Sam Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    So Steve or anyone who could answer, What are you feelings concerning an original mono "Pet Sounds" in comparison to your DCC version? What did capital do "wrong" with the original that you changed when you were up to bat with those master tapes?
     
  12. Larry Geller

    Larry Geller Surround sound lunatic

    Location:
    Bayside, NY
    That's why I said it was BEFORE I knew of your relationship with him.
     
  13. Sam

    Sam Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Steve, I listened to the Dexter interview that you provided. Very interesting to hear his comments. Near the end of the interview, he comments on how the Beatles did not like the capital sound in comparison to the British sound. By listening to his tone, it's obvious he doesn't agree. I wonder if he really ever listened to a Parlophone pressing to hear the difference? And there's more than just echo on Capital's pressings as I notice a distinctive lack of bass, especially on the stereo pressings.
     
  14. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    Now that people know I knew Dave I'm being flooded with messages asking me to talk a little about Dave & The Beatles. Sigh.

    Well, first of all, Dave thought he was IMPROVING the sound of the Beatles' tapes. Perhaps on the crappy home equipment of the day, the American versions did sound better.

    Secondly, Dave (as he told me), didn't like John Lennon very much (ya think?) Dave said that John (as the "voice" of the group) didn't want to "Play the game at all", meaning the publicity game. He didn't want to shmooze with the press, didn't want to shake hands with cripples, etc. Dave never forgave him for that. Now, when Lennon died and Dexter wrote his little piece in Billboard, I wrote a letter to the magazine that was published in the next issue. Basically I ripped Dave a new one for being so openly hostile the week after John died. On reflection, that not wanting to meet cripples thing really galled Dave for some reason. I asked him about it, and he said that the Beatles brought hope to this country after Kennedy was killed and he was appalled that the group just wanted to party in Los Angeles. A generational thing I think. Like Prince Charles vs. Princess Diana. Charles was and is "duty first" and Diana just wanted to hang out...

    At any rate, when I finally met Dave in 1982, the first thing I told him was that I wrote that bitch letter about him and I was sorry about it. That's when we started talking about the Beatles era. He said that all he was trying to do was give their music some "life" by redubbing with chamber echo and new EQ. He felt the British tapes sounded "dead as a door nail" which they probably did on the consumer equipment of the time. He said he was under pressure from the very top to lower the number of tracks on albums and that the Beatles were no exception. Since Capitol had to wait for certain early songs to become available to them, they had to scramble for tracks in 1964.

    Dave also said it was his idea to make RUBBER SOUL into a folk album by programming it to start with I'VE JUST SEEN A FACE and by putting IT'S ONLY LOVE on there and removing an uptempo number or two. It worked for me; the American programming of Rubber Soul is the only time I'll take the American version over the British, even though it lost three songs in the process.

    At any rate, we had a nice chat and I basically hired him to write all of the liner notes for our big jazz series. After all, he knew all of the players from that era personally.

    Regarding Capitol's PET SOUNDS, a first press mono LP was cut from the full-track master tape, with the usual Capitol "compromises" made for vinyl in that era; weird EQ, weird compression and a curious lackluster sound that was just the antithesis of their late 1950's mastering sound. Such is life.
     
  15. Ian

    Ian Active Member

    Location:
    Milford, Maine
    Safe to say that there was no love lost between Dexter and The Beatles... Refreshing bit of honesty in the interview
     
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  16. mcow1

    mcow1 Sommelier Gort

    Location:
    Orange County, CA
    And who knows, maybe he was right for the time and the American audiences wouldn't have liked it as much without the boost and the reverb.
     
  17. sgraham

    sgraham New Member

    Location:
    Michigan
    From the bio and interview I get the idea that Dave Dexter was basically a jazz guy who really resented having to deal with the Beatles, and perhaps the way they influenced the state of popular music. That plus the "generation gap" thing (which George Martin seemed to bridge just fine).

    As for the original records sounding dead as a doornail on the cheap equipment of the time -- they sounded as good as anything ever did on my cheap record players. The versions buried in reverb, on the other hand, sounded murky and swimmy. (And even worse on AM radio, with the combination of no treble and lots of compression making the reverb even more prominent.)
     
  18. Ed Bishop

    Ed Bishop Incredibly, I'm still here

    That american audience was mainly young kids and teens; I didn't care about the *sound* back then, I doubt any of us did. We just loved the music and took it for what it was. Which is to say, all that futzing about was probably unnecessary. Oh well....

    But I am glad to know it was Dexter who programmed RUBBER SOUL; like Steve, I prefer that song arrangement to the UK version, and after all these years, not just because I heard it that way first. It really is a folkier album as a result, taking two tracks from the UK HELP! that seemed just tossed onto Side 2 of that album, given genuine context. Nicely done...:thumbsup:

    ED:cool:
     
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  19. lennonfan

    lennonfan New Member

    Location:
    baltimore maryland
    as I mentioned in another thread I, too, think the U.S. Rubber Soul programming was an actual -improvement-. It really has a nice acoustic balance.

    I'm not as tough on the Dexter versions as many are here, simply because it adds another dimension, and makes the U.S. versions collectable just because of their variations. From Pepper on, I think the Capitol versions of Fabs lps sound pretty awful....now true, if I want clean, clear Beatles, the UK versions are -it-. Often, tho, I like that grungy echo because that's how they sounded on my original records and on the equipment of the time, given how dull the reproduction was on my phonos of the era, the echo boost really did add a bit of excitement to the proceedings.
     
  20. Sam

    Sam Senior Member Thread Starter

    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    Steve, thank you for taking the time to write such a response. I have and continue to learn so much from this forum.
     
  21. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    If there's one thing Mr. Dexter did right, it was recognizing the greatness of "I've Just Seen a Face" and rescuing it from the obscurity of side two of Help. But even though I grew up with the US Rubber Soul, I can't say it's better than the UK version. As much as I like IJSAF, its not strong enough to make up for the loss of the four deleted songs, and "It's Only Love" is really just mediocre by 1965 Lennon standards.
     
  22. Matt

    Matt New Member

    Location:
    Illinois
    Yeah, I gotta go with the UK version. "It's Only Love" is okay, but I don't think it measures up to any of John's songs on the UK Rubber Soul, not even "Run For Your Life." "I've Just Seen A Face" is a nice, pleasant song, but I think "Drive My Car" is a great, kick-ass opener for a folk-ROCK album.
     
  23. Steve Hoffman

    Steve Hoffman Your host Your Host

    It's Only Love is mediocre? It's one of my all-time favorites! Unique chord structure and probably the only time that John was mixed entirely without echo (not that you would know it from the crappy remix with digital reverb).

    For shame!!

    :)
     
  24. Johnny C.

    Johnny C. Ringo's Biggest Fan

    Location:
    Brooklyn, USA
    What always got me about Dave Dexter, Jr. was his rejecting "I Want To Hold Your Hand" not once, but twice.

    But, as we all know, nobody is either all bad or all good, as he did sign some mighty important artists that we would all be worse off if we never got to hear them.

    Good thing the Beatles had the Swan, Tollie, and Vee-Jay labels.

    P.S. - Ditto with Steve on 'It's Only Love' - one of Lennon's most lovely songs!
     
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  25. czeskleba

    czeskleba Senior Member

    Location:
    Seattle
    Well, in my defense I said mediocre by Lennon standards, which are of course higher than normal human standards...

    I was talking mainly lyrically mediocre... compared to the Nowhere Man or Norwegian Wood or In My Life, it's not one of his stronger lyrics, in my opinion.
     
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