I'd suggest that, after his death, a whole lot of people are either only just getting into Bowie, or are busy reappraising his albums. As such, it's Tin Machine get the credit they deserve. Just because some myopic fools walked out of shows back in the day..... it's not the 90's any more. I personally think making statements about what will and won't sell is a fools errand. We're not marketing wonks, and we can only really speak of our personal preference, and perhaps those of personal friends. Someone mentioned Oh Vey earlier - that album is plain terrible, and that's coming from a Tin Machine fan. Goodness knows what possessed them to release it as is - hacked up and poorly recorded. Especially when they had recorded some complete and better shows. No-one walked out of the Tin Machine I saw, but it was in a small venue. A great night!
not really, Bowie records tend, on the whole, to be moderate sellers (worldwide); but they sell consistently over long periods. So somthing like Ziggy Stardust, which scraped the top 5 in the UK and only the top 75 in the US went on to sell several million in 40 years. Tin Machine has NOT continued to sell, even when it was re-issued as a David Bowie record. If you think "a whole lot of people are either only just getting into Bowie, or are busy reappraising his albums" then where is the evidence for this regarding Tin Machine? You can't give that crap away. It's too easy to think that, from within your bowie collectors bubble that all bowie fans are "busy" doing the same. People are NOT listening to Tin Machine. They are not buying Tin Machine. It's a few people on a forum thinking talking to like minded peopke and extapolating to the wider music listeners. I am willing to bet you any money you like that if the next box contains Tin Machine records it will be the lowest selling box so far.
I think they cover Tin Machine with next box but also make it more enticing with a Sound And Vision show or two. Maybe Black Tie too, but actually makes the box less enticing for me. I'm not concerned. The found enough good stuff to mAke me buy the 80's set. NAture will find a way.
I would love to see a reissue of the Ryko Sound & Vision box in its original packaging. Just for nostalgia's sake.
Your opinion is based on a personal bias - which is not the entire market. Some like Tin Machine, some don't. I do. As you say, Bowie sells well over time, and over time Tin Machine will too. Tin Machine II and Oh Vey have been OOP for some time, so that's another thing in their favor.
A perfect example of the error in assuming people will only buy what they already like. I was the same - I could have done without Let's Dance and Tonight. Decided to get the box anyway.
Make Tin Machine a one month press to order exclusive set on Bowie.com. $99.99. It will sell. And aftermarket will probably double.
What was the main problem, do you reckon? I don’t know much about the TM period but I did have that first CD (and liked it alright) and knew he was trying hard to make this a band and not a “Bowie” thing. On that note, who else has done that? Cher did it briefly with Black Rose in 1980 and we all remember Chris “I’m not Garth Brooks” Gaines but who else wanted to do the “go solo” thing in reverse?
Well, at this point the main issue is that some fans just can't open their ears. While Bowie was trying to do a band thing (and we all know the reasons for that) every song is a Bowie song, performance wise. It's just heavier than usual, with Reeves having more space to really blast things out. As I say, Bowie is in there. That said, there are some people who decided they didn't like it in the 90's, and aren't able to open themselves up for it today. I'll never understand it, but then I liked it from the off. While Oh Vey may well be the worst Bowie album, the other two TM albums aren't the worst Bowie albums by some margin, imo. Still, any reissue clearly isn't for haters.
This is all pure nonsense/speculation on my part but I wonder what the reaction would have been if, in an alternative universe, Bowie went directly from Scary Monsters to Tin Machine, skipping over the “commercial” trifecta of LD/T/NLMD? The backlash would certainly have been smaller if for no other reason than the fan base hadn’t exploded like it did post-LD. In other words, next to NLMD, TM is a shocking shift but next to Scary Monsters does it make more “sense”?
I think so. You perhaps have a point, because people going to see Bowie in the 90's were coming off NLMD, Tonight, and Let's Dance - so their expectations were well and truly shattered. Which, of course, was the entire point. The music isn't so different than some of the things that followed, and I think some people make a needlessly big deal about it. Is Tin Machine any more agressive than some of the things on Outside? And The Pretty Things are Going to Hell from Hours is Tin Machine through and through - and some consider that the highlight of that album. We all have a bias. I don't know why some dislike TM so much. It's rock music. It has Bowie writing and singing (for the most part). Of course, as you suggest, if you thought you were going to get Let's Dance II, you were disappointed. Oh, and no big stupid spider thing with Christmas light legs.
I think the first Tin Machine album is excellent. The material is very strong (lp tracklisting at least). If people walked out of shows those were probably the people who came to hear China Girl anyway so let them leave. I think Liza Jane sounds like sorta Tin Machine. Maybe they were just a modern day Lower Third.
Without going back through the thread. Have there been any glaring issues which would require replacement disc(s) like the previous box? I have the box but haven’t had the opportunity to play it yet. Hopefully this weekend. Appreciate any insight.
Have to agree. I’m enjoying this set very much, even though I wasn’t particularly enamoured of Tonight or NLMD at the time....but Tin Machine was incredibly disappointing, more so than Tonight for me, as with very few exceptions the actual songs were just not strong, and that Tin Machine sound....argh, talk about a wearing listen...! I won’t be getting a Tin Machine box no matter what it contains. (of course, I say that now....see what happens in a year)
Actually, I liked about 85% of Tin Machine’s albums, but walked out because on stage it was a cock rock mess. The point I left was specific: I realised the latest dirge they started was actually Roxy Music’s If There is Something, one of my then 19 year old self’s favourite, treasured songs. Nobody sane was expecting China Girl or any other Bowie hit at a Tin Machine gig.
I said I would follow up on this and if the web version of Zinio actually WORKED, I would have by now. (Our digital future: Where you better hope that that place where all your purchased magazines are stored stays in business....but on to the tablet version of Zinio...) Mojo Magazine, January 2016 Visconti interview p.76 Q: As well as producing, you and Bowie mixed "Blackstar". But Tom Elmhurst is credited with the "final master mix"...what happened there? TV: David and I were mixing in my studio, and David says "Let's do this at Electric Lady. When I worked with Arcade Fire a couple years ago, I loved that room." But Electric Lady gave us a smaller analog room; the room wasn't for hire because Tom Elmhurst leases it. He's mixing Adele, Frank Ocean...although he's British, he's the number 1 mixing engineer in the US. So we weren't getting anywhere in our little studio. We went to see Tom and he started to play some of his recent mixes. David took me aside: 'Do you mind if I ask Tom to mix the album?' I said, 'You go ahead'. Tom started mixing and his basic sound was brilliant but he was missing a few cues. I personally don't like to mix "unattended" - this is a new term in the business. Tom always works unattended - Adele never comes to the studio. But we live in New York so we attended. David and I would show up about 5PM and correct a few things. Initially Tom said "I do a mix a day. That's how I work." David and I looked at each other and said 'I'm sorry but it takes a little longer to mix a David Bowie song..." Q: Still, he made it in the end. TV: Tom did a fantastic job, really worked hard. But the things he gets... Music is so simple these days, pop music is so simple, that it's a no-brainer. I'm sorry, but it doesn't take a lot of brains to mix an Adele record. A Bowie album is almost as complicated as the galaxy we live in. It was the first time ever that David and I worked with another mixer on something that we produced. If Tom did a terrible job then I certainly would have fought to be back on the board, but he was doing exquisite work. Do you like the sound of the album? Q: It's dazzling. TV: It is pretty cool. It's got a dazzling low end and all the dreamscapes are there, too. It's got a very wide vista. David's voice sounds fabulous. I'm very proud of it. None of us were in our comfort zone, that's what's so good about the album. This album could have taken two years to make, like "The Next Day", because we were really working in the dark on "The Next Day". "The Next Day" was full of wrong turns and red herrings whereas this one was pretty straightforward. Q: It's released on Bowie's birthday, like "Where are We Now?" three years ago. Are you as excited this time? TV: No, because everyone knows it's coming out. Already by January 8 they're going to hear "Blackstar", which isn't typical of the album but it is typical in the sense that Bowie's changed again. [snip] I'll be thrilled, of course, when it comes out on January 8. I'll be very very thrilled. I've got to tell you, I've cut the vinyl and the vinyl mastering is superb. This is going to be a vinyl you must have. You're not going to paste it up on your wall, this one you're going to play over and over again. The vinyl sounds like good old-fashioned vinyl. The way you dreamt it used to sound like.
Shoulda stuck around. Eventually, the band takes it down a notch, and Bowie takes the wheel. At least that's true on the record.
I am all in for Tin Machine rereleases. Having said that, the few Tin Machine singles I have sound really good. I do wonder if new vinyl cuts could beat what is out there.
I haven't heard a single Tin Machine song so far but would buy the box for sure like the first 4 boxes
Thank you for searching it out. This interview suggests that TV really does appreciate a good vinyl master. I do remember him saying at the time of release that the vinyl was cut for audiophiles...but I'd like to find out who decides to crush the cd/digital download dynamics. I know Bowie was a fan of compression, but if TV likes dynamic mastering, who asks for the cds to be squished? BTW, the going rate for a split up vinyl box item appears to be £60 on EBay. Someones's got NLMD 2018, Glass Spider and ReCall 4 all for £60 each. I wonder what he did with the rest of the box? Oxfam? newyorksalmon | eBay As for Tin Machine - I'd snap up a boxset. Those albums have energy and fighting-against-complacency spirit.
