Denon Dl-110 phono cart

Yes, thanks—2.2 mV!

 

ya 2.2 mv i'm pretty sure

 

if you have a phono stage that can handle it, why not go up to the DL-103R? they are cheap right now because of the exchange rate ~$215 on ebay etc....

 

I have a MC section on my parasound zphono mc gain is 61 db. I'm not sure tho if it can give that denon mc Carr justice ? Maybe but I would be afraid it would be too bright. Maybe as bright as my at440mla which I am trying to get away from going to the dl 110 with a more balanced sound unless the dl 103r is similar to the 110?

 

Different stylus shape, but family (broadcast) sound, which sounds very correct. If you want to go that way though, find an SUT and get the regular 103. I wan't to see how the 110 stylus holds up past 500 hrs. I can make my peace with the sound and price, particularly if it holds up past 1,000 like some claim.

 

Moving from a 110 or 160 to a 103 can be more of lateral move, depending on what aspects of vinyl playback you're focused on. I greatly preferred the 160 over the 103 because of the 160's line contact stylus. Some people like the 110 even more than the 160. Others love the 103.

 

Probably depends on what record you are spinning. For me, new pressings with non-fill issues are impossible with a line contact. The 110 elliptical plays all my Dionne/Bacharach Specter LPs, which nothing else seems to tolerate.

 

No one seems to know for sure the exact shape and dimensions of the "special elliptical" tip on the 110 or 160. The 160 had an slightly smaller shank than 110 to go with it's tapered cantilever. I found it very forgiving of groove imperfections, like you have with the 110. It definitely extended deeper into the groove than the basic elliptical styli on other cartridges I've had but clearly not as far as a MicroLine does. To me, it seemed to perform a lot like the hyper-elliptical tip on my Shure VST-III.

 

DL160


DL110

 

103R - it's a great cartridge. very musical and nicer top end then the regular 103. Good tracker even with the conical stylus - and not hard to set up. Just need the right arm for it (Rega RBs work fine with a little added mass). It is so good, it makes it almost makes it seem like spending any more foolish. Though, yes, you can better it with more expensive carts. But we are talking about expensive, delicate things with limited useful lifespans. A brand new DL-103R will cost less than just retipping some expensive carts.

 

It's definitely a nice cart. I borrowed the 103 but I've heard the 103R on some other setups. I like its sound in general and the quality of its conical stylus is top notch. But for everyday use I just can't get around the sonic signature imparted by its stylus although I've really tried. I grew up with higher compliance cartridges with line-contact styli and just prefer that sound to anything else so far.

 

Thanks for that. From what I've heard of the 20 it really seems a tremendous all-round cart.

 

Plain 103 on my Rega with added mass.
Nothing I had before has come close!

 

could you describe how you added mass?

 

...And have you been able to compare it to the 110 at all?

 

I have the DL110 and the DL160. Both are excellent trackers and very good detail. Both are well balanced on tone. While many more expensive cartridges may sound better , diminishing returns on the improvements are there. I also love my Shure V15 which tracks almost anything you can put to it. The v15 is also has a flatter tone response than the Denon, but the Denon may be a bit more detailed. The Shure has a bit lower noise floor most likely from the ridge line stylus.

 

Well I just pulled the trigger! My sl1200 has a new companion coming in a few days ! I am excited for the 110! Any tips on setup? I think I will enjoy this more balanced approach in sound over my too bright at440mla which I did enjoy for 2 years but now it's time to move on.. Will hold it in reserve

 

It is very light, but comes with a weighted plate and very light aluminum mounting hardware. The line down the front makes it a snap to align. I needed to add some mass with my tonearm and got some heavier mounting screws (JA Mitchell), but you may not need that with your arm. Sounds pretty right at 47K, a little tubby at 2K.

 

congrats. i also hung onto my 440MLa as a backup. no way it's ever going back on after the 110.

 

Audio Origami supplied me with a 10gm weight.
I found that with the use of lead tape that I needed about 180gm for a counterweight and that's what he has made me. An underslung brass counterweight.
That's my findings.
No I didn't compare it to the 110.
Mind you the roger part is that I am using the Parks Audio Budgie SUT that uses (and I think this is key) the Cinemag 3440A transformers on the 1:18 tap.
This goes into an MX110 and into an MC240 and out to Tannoy 15" Monitor Golds.
If you have the RP6 or 3 or really, any Rega with that combo you will have your mind blown by the 103.
I have a funny feeling that something about negative feedback in the phono section negates or lessens the capacitance that the 12AX7s usually exhibit. Some have said that this and Dynaco share that design characteristic and that does something with how this cart works...

Better explained here as something I read elsewhere...


"
Folks,

This thread caught my attention, because here Romy waxes lyrically about the failings of the Denon Cartridges. Now I only consider ONE Denon worth bothering, the ORIGINAL 103, it is often inaccuratly called 103C. It has a medium compliance (around 2..2.5g tracking force) and a spherical stylus. All "improvements" are basically garbage and DO NOT WORK. You might as well get a modern pickup.

And the real 103 has many ideosyncracies, which make any stetup suited to modern MC pickups completely unsuited to it's use. Sadly Romy choose to do much evaluation in that context and got the results one would expect.

Before I cover the differences between modern MC pickups and the 103 one or two more comments, the 103 will never be the last word in extreme LF or HF nor quite in resolution, still, it does at least as well as MANY modern High End pickups do in average setups, if placed into a context in which it works well.

Differenes are many....

1) Difference in mechanic - modern MC (and some MM) cartridges rely on "dumping" unwanted mechanical energy into the tonearm, which thus requires high rigidity, extremely close coupling of the whole mechanical system and very tight bearings.

The denon was designed in an age when rigid arms simply did not exist. A Denon would bolt into the plastic removable headshell of a EMT Arm, onto the small contact area of an Ortofon Arm "G" type removable headshell or onto an SME 3009/10/12 removable headshell. That means several mechanical breaks and soft couplings between cartridge and finally the Turntable. The Denon is actually designed to work well under such conditions. Bolt it into a modern rigid arm and you losse a large degree of the perfomance.

The 103 actually REQUIRES arms that by modern standards are crappy. If you cannot find a suitably crappy arm (as they tend to fetch prices that are obscene on e-gay) use two small plastic washers between the cartridge body and the actual headshell mounting surface and do not overtighten the cartridge screws, the whole idea to avoid coupling the cartridge rigidly to the arm.

A little story, without the "washer" trick the 103 sounded exteremly "grey" in my Originb Live RB250 and the Silver 250 and while using a fairly modern headshell on a very cheaply picked up MKII UNIMPROVED 3009 I still did not get the sound that I knew was possible. Before actually laying down the long green to buy an old 3012 I managed to snag an original 3009 Headshell off a friend and voila, all fell into place.

2) Difference in electric - modern MC cartridges (the better ones anyway) have very low impedances (< 10 Ohm is common) and use very strong magnet systems. The 103 uses an old style Alnico magnet and has coils that are no heavier than modern cartridges, but wich are wound with much finer wire and have more turns, meaning the DCR is 40 Ohm and the inductance is notable.

Now that means that the 103 cannot be used with (most) modern MC Stepup transformers, they usually are optimised for very low impedance sources and loose extension at the frequency extremes (already a somewhat weak area) and due to the relations to the magnetic core also resolution is lost.

What this means is that the 103 is actually MUCH more at home with a studio Microphone stepup transformer with a nominal 200 Ohm primary impedance (common types are 200:10..15K) and it should be loaded quite lightly with something in the 500R - 1K region. Getting good medium impedance microphone stepup transformers is not easy, meaning you may be better off using active stepups.

Finally, if you use modern Valve Phonostages you have another problem. Old MM Phono's tended to be variants of the Marantz or Dynaco feedback equalised designs. They have fallen out of favour for good reasons but have one particular feature that makes them different and more suited to the 103 than the non-nfb equalised modern types. That feature is that the input capacitance is much reduced by the NFB. At high frequencies where the input capacitance of conventional ECC83 (> 200pF) or of a WE 417A (>200pF) starts causing potential trouble the NFB equalised valve ponostage actually reduces this input capacitance due to the very large amount of NFB applied (around 40db more than at 20Hz).

Now 200pF are not a bad load onto the 103, but if you use a 1:10 stepup transformer the actual capacitive load onto the 103 becomes in effect around 2nF enough to cause audible problems (I tried).

So, if you really want to know why some people are gaga about the 103 (and no, they are not all morons, sorry Romy) you need to place it into a symphatic envoironment. The cheap solution is a generic modern arm with the washers and a simple good MC capable solid state phonostage allowing >1kOhm MC loading.

The expensive solution is an old, nonimproved SME Arm or equivalent with the right type of transformer (certain old german mike stepup transformers are rumored to be the ultimate) and a low input capacitance MM Phonostage which would have to be most likely DIY as few commercially available ones exist that make sense.

Considering that the 103 only costs < 200 Bucks in an age where "quality" cartridges retail for at least 10 times that and considering it's peculiar requirements it will always remain a well kept secret and as long as enough reviewers get their setups dramatically wrong this state will thankfully remain, keeping the 103 cost down, as only people with right setup and studio's want it.

Ciao T"

 

I had a DL-110 on my Technics Sl-1200 MK5 for a few years and really enjoyed it but it was beginning to sound a bit lifeless, so I recently decided to try a 103. I got it off the Bay for only $140 , which was $60 cheaper than the 110. I DIYed a heavier counterweight and added 2g of mass to the tonearm by putting some shrink wrap on it. I also had to fashion a bigger spacer out of acrylic to get an optimal VTA. I use a MF V-LPS II for a phono stage. This is one nice cartridge. I have zero tracking issues, which kind of surprised me. In fact, my old mono records sound much quieter than with the 110. The sound is similar to the 110 but I would say a bit more natural. In fact, it is the flattest cart I have ever had (Denon DL100, AT95, AT120, AT125LC, Shure 91ed, Shure V15 IV, Ortofon 2m Red). Well recorded material really shines, whereas inferior recordings are exposed for what they are. Is it better than the DL-110? Probably. But if the DL-110 could still be had for $90 on Comet Supply, I would recommend it over the 103 in a heart beat. They are pretty close.

 

This is interesting. The 110 is the first lower compliance cart I've had in my Rega arm, and I've noticed it does not kick up a fuss if you virtually eliminate the electrical damping/load and let it fly. 100K is actually pretty reasonable.

 

Up to about 12 hours on my DL-110 and loving it. I'm currently re-doing some needledrops of albums I always felt sounded curiously flat with my other styli. It doesn't perform miracles on them but it certainly has given them more liveliness. Bigger soundstage and better bass presence will do that, I suppose!

It's also better cutting out some surface noise than I could have expected. Lead-in grooves on used LPs tend to be quieter, for instance.

 

Can't wait to set mine up.. What is the recommended tracking force on the sl1200? 1.8? And ant skate same? And VTA? Thanks all!! I'm not sure if I will have to use the weight it comes with. And I suppose I can use the technics overhang gage. I did buy a new Technics sl1200 genuine new headshell.. I figured why not since the original headshell I have had since 2007 or so and it has housed my previous two carts , the Shure 97 and at440 mla , so I figured why not ? Less oxidation etc!

 

Set up cartridge tonight and only getting sound out of my left channel. Ugh. It must be the headshell leads I didn't tighten enough on one or some of them. I don't know what else it could be. I bought a brand new technics headshell I don't think it's that .. I am using the nicer ohno cast headshell leads from my AT440 and not the standard headshell leads that came with the new headshell .. Ugh. I hope that all it is to just re tighten them