Did April Wine have to pay royalties Beatles and Stones?

Uhh, no, I didn't say that at all -- I'm saying that their track record indicates that they set a pattern for such a thing, so it should come as no surprise at all to learn that they did indeed borrow yet again without proper credit given.

If you listened to both "Taurus" and "Stairway" back to back, and didn't find the resemblance to be more than coincidental usage of a descending arpeggio in the same key -- then you may want to get your ears checked. They appropriated someone else's work to create their song -- and as usual they built upon it and improved it -- but the source seems more than evident to me. I'm still chuckling at your defense that the recordings were "vaguely similar", but "nowhere close to identical".

 

As opposed to your side-splittingly ridiculously comical comment "They're pretty much the same." ?

Plus how do you KNOW they "appropriated" Taurus? You can read Jimmy's mind? Because there is not nearly enough of a similarity to establish that as a fact. Heck if the courts couldn't establish that as fact, how can you claim to?

They stole "Killing Floor" pretty much completely note for note doing little more than changing its name to "The Lemon Song" (and adding the "squeeze my lemon..." line taken probably - but not necessarily - from a Robert Johnson song) and claiming full authorship for themselves.

I remember when first hearing the "Radio One" Jimi Hendrix BBC disc from the late 80s at a friend's house and thinking that it was interesting that Jimi had covered a "Led Zeppelin" song - until I read the correct songwriting credits - not to mention the name of the song in the credits of that Jimi disc.

BTW - did they go to court over "Killing Floor/Lemon Song"? No they settled the suit because they absolutely knew they'd lose. The fact that in the case of Taurus they refused to settle and chose to go to court to fight says a lot about the weakness of the case.

BTW - has Zeppelin EVER gone to court in the past - rather than settling? I don't remember that ever happening.

I seem to remember that Jimmy said he based the intro to "The Rain Song" on a Beatles song after George Harrison complained to him at the time that Zeppelin didn't do enough ballads. I never heard about George suing due to similarity of The Beatles song in question - that Jimmy actually fully admitted to using as inspiration/a starting/reference point for "The Rain Song".

...anyway you say they're guilty, while I say (for once) they're innocent. How 'bout we let the verdict of the court case break the tie?

Sound fair?

 

So if someone was caught breaking into houses (say 3-6 times) was caught each time and served their debt to society (jail time and/or community service and/or probation) for each offense then since "their track record indicates that they set a pattern for such a thing" the cops should automatically pin every future alleged/suspected (not even proven) break in that occurs ever again in the neighbourhood on him?

Hey according to your logic the police should harass the guy every time an alleged break in occurs in the area for the rest of his life because: "it should come as no surprise at all to learn that they did indeed break into another house yet again"

So when it comes to Led Zeppelin no evidence/proof is needed - they should ALWAYS be assumed to be guilty because "their track record indicates that they set a pattern for such a thing"?

...or perhaps it would be best if EVERY case that comes before the courts be judged on the actual evidence of the specific individual case and not based on "Well he did it before, so he probably did it again this time - that's all I need to know - GUILTY!"

 

If all of the evidence points to a guy known for break-ins, then why wouldn't he be a suspect???

According to your logic, then he should never be questioned again, since he did his time for his past transgressions.

And he flat out admitted it before! So he couldn't possibly be a suspect again!

Sheesh!

 

Strawman!!!!!!!!!!

I said it should be based on EVIDENCE!!!!

Do I need to say it again? :

EVIDENCE!

Is that clear enough for you?

Not "well he did it before so screw checking finger prints, or even verifying whether there's any physical evidence that a break in even OCCURED at all" (it does happen occasionally that people make things up/file false police reports, so...

Nah - screw all that - just haul him in and stick him in a cell....

In other words "guilty until proven innocent" (and seemingly as far as you're concerned guilty even AFTER innocence is determined by a court of law" Or if one wants to spit hairs/cry "semantics!" after a verdict of "not guilty" is determined by a court of law.

 

Martin Mull appropriated guitar licks from Day Tripper, Satisfaction AND Smoke On the Water -- not mashed up together, but sequentially. But it was a gag, and basically the point of his song.

 

It surprises me that that was successful. It's basically just chords. The intro to Nilsson's "Jump Into the Fire" is also similar to it. Chords and chord progressions cannot be copyrighted. Either Eric's music lawyer wasn't shrewd enough or Wally's was up to some trickery. That's my take on it anyway.

 

Or it was easier and cheaper to settle or they didn't want other issues to come out in court. The classical themes that Carmen borrowed might show a jury or judge he had a habit of the kind of borrowing.

 

Steve Miller could sue Tom Petty. You don't know how it feels sounds like The Joker

 

Wow, you were loudest, I guess you were right after all.

 

Unless you were in the room when he came up with it, you can't determine if it was coincidental i.e.a passage that just stuck in Page's head a la "He's So Fine"/"My Sweet Lord", if it was clipped on purpose or by noodling around so much it just appeared and he blotted out any past knowledge of it. Heavy drug use can do that. Once they paid and credited Jake Holmes, I'd guess the Randy California Estate figured it was worth trying to collect. If it was such a obvious direct lift why didn't California and his publisher sue back in the 70's.

 

They were not out of money then

 

I'd rather be loud and correct, than be the one who forces someone else to be loud because they (let's be nice and assume accidentally - but I wonder) straw-manned someone's argument - a VERY dishonest tactic where one makes a show of debunking an argument that their opponent does not actually hold - which is what you did.

So I'm happy to be "loud" and correct rather than "not loud" and dishonest - but hey that's just ME!

 

Uh, you may have missed this, but there was actually this rather big trial over the Taurus/Stairway resemblance and the person alleging that Stairway was filched from Taurus lost, so it's ridiculous to keep arguing about this. Every argument you've made has been answered in the massive thread about the trial. Maybe go read that instead of polluting this thread with an old and now irrelevant debate.

Court Rules Plant, Page Must Face "Stairway to Heaven" Jury Trial/ Decision*

 

He must have assumed that the themes he "borrowed" from Rachmaninoff for "All By Myself" and "Never Gonna Fall In Love Again" were in the public domain, since he only credited himself with the words AND music. He ended up having to pay a settlement to Rachmaninoff's estate which held registered copyrights on those pieces. At least Barry Manilow credited Chopin for "Could It Be Magic."

 

I'm familiar, thanks.

 

There are lawyers, in all fields, that research and seek these kinds of lawsuits out. Especially in the medical world. Basically Ambulance chasers. The "Spirit" people way have been approached by such and they figured "why not". Many of these attorneys only get paid if a settlement or court victory is to be had.

 

I would argue that musical quotes in the song are:
1. Not an integral part of the song, but added at the end to illustrate a musical "homage."
2. Not an integral part of the song and of such short duration as to constitute "fair use."
If counsel was really playing rough, I'd argue that the quotes are a parody and therefore entitled to protection.

 

So, you'll stop polluting this thread, then?

 

Whatever. I wasn't the one who brought it up in the first place. Sorry I had an opinion on the matter.

 

I wonder if any of this came into play when John L. was sued by Morris Levy/Chuck Berry for "Come Together/You cant catch me" . The same time period had him somewhat doing it with "Because". Was it Moonlight Sonata he reversed the chords to and said he did it.Getting back to Eric Carmen,,there was another song of his"I wanna hear it from your lips" which is pretty close to Springsteens' "Fire".He was even called out on Cleveland radio for it back in the 80's when it was released. Finally,and I believe this info comes from the Ken Sharp book on the Rasberries,Wally Bryson wanted a songwriting credit on "Go all the way".No money was probably coughed up.