Digital Production vs Reel to Reel!?

But don't forget, you're listening to it through 16 bits/44.1 kHz digital (even MP3 compressed). So digital is not losing anything of that "richness" you perceive. Since it isn't there on the straight digital recording, could it be that the analogue tape adds something that wasn't there in the beginning, i.e. it acts like a processor? If so, the conclusion has to be that there's nothing wrong with digital at all, it's even truer to the original, and the fact that some people prefer the analogue is no contradiction. It just means they like the slightly processed audio of analogue better.

 

Have you seen the thread our host here started about basically the same thing only it was the output of the vinyl process vs digital? It is old and I can't seem to find it but worth checking out.

Both analog and digital can sound excellent and both can sound poor. Don't trust anyone who tells you otherwise!

 

Indeed. The fact that people can hear the difference between the DDD and AAD recording on a heavily data reduced YouTube video should be a massive clue as to the source-accurate nature of digital recording.

 

R2R tape gives a certain 'aesthetic' to the sound. Recording in 24/96 digital would be more accurate.

 

R2r change the sound Little, ok i Wonder what normal artist feel how THE musical change in compare of what they listen themselft playing?

 

lolol I was waiting for someone to ask that! I've been out of the recording game for a while so thank you!

 

Thank you @Pinknik. That was just what this thread needed.

 

It's still digital audio. In the digital domain, the physical storage system is irrelevant as long as it works and is fast enough. The same digital audio file will sound exactly the same regardless if it's read from holographic storage, SD card, hard disc, CD-ROM, floppy disk, or punched cards.

 

All they need to do is copy the tape to some other digital format in time.

 

Yes, and the quality (mastering) of that digital "file", and the playback equipment will be what is "good", or not. But you are right, the method of storage is just storage.
Perhaps "readability" of the files is an important aspect of how it is stored. Great to have huge "storage" capabilities, but how a playback system can utilize that is important.

 

I would if the DATman hadn't eaten it!!

 

Don't want to argue on a bit of a technicality, but how do cymbals and bass guitar sound?

A cymbal has many sounds depending on which end of the stick you use, wooden or nylon tips, weight of stick, what wood, where on the cymbal you hit it and how hard you hit it. There are many more variations. Where are the mics positioned, how many, what type? All this occurs before the colourations and noise of a mixing desk.

Bass guitar. Via D.I. box? From line out and the sonic character of the bass amps circuitry?

I honestly believe the definition "accurate" in relation to recorded music is a load of dingos kidneys, analogue or digital.

On a single accoustic instrument, such as a piano, ignoring the characteristics and colouration of any given microphone, the piano positioning and room acoustics, moving the positioning of the mic by a couple of inches, will change the sound. Which positioning gives the most "accurate" sound.

The "sound" of a Strat (through a bank of digital pedals), how much music is actually recorded without a single digital item, somewhere in the chain?

 

What sounds "right" and "accurate" may not be as subjective as you think. Folks who play a violin would be able to say (with some authority,) whether a recording of a violin
sounds authentic. An example that jumped out at me once, was a cowbell. The "inferior" recording sounded like a glass bottle (like a "tink-tink" sound,) the better (imo)
recording, you could really hear the brass of the cowbell. Small "quality" thing, but if you want "cowbell" you better be able to reproduce it. Otherwise, what's the point,
just use a milk bottle...

 

31 KHz? You must mean 3.1 KHz. Your avoidance of period punctuation should not extend to mathematical measurements and statements.

The highest note that can be played on a high quality concert violin with an extended fingerboard (no matter how it is tuned) by the most skilled player has a frequency of approximately 4.4 KHz. There are some higher harmonics, obviously, but in general no humans beyond the age of approximately 25 can hear harmonics beyond approximately 16KHz no matter what the volume.

 

I know what you're saying and agree to a point. I own two cowbells, different pitches, I'm not sure if I can hear the brass of the cowbell, but they certainly sound different where, how and with what you hit them. Recording them brings a completely different set of issues.

I only played violin for a year, but every person who played it produced a marginally different sound. They were all obviously authentic. I probably would have achieved a more pleasant sound from a milk bottle!

 

Well, then you have the issue of "intent". If the artist's "intent" was for you to really connect with the instrument he is playing, the accurate sound is important.

 

Not always that simple. DAT tapes and machines were temperamental, when new. Ever heard of DAT tape interchange issues, digital fuzz. and some tapes flat out not playing. It happens much more often than you think. I had to run backup 1/4" half track 7 1/2 or 15 IPS open reel on critical recordings. I come from a broadcast engineering background, and having to keep a fleet of those DAT machines in operational order. They were drama queens, especially with any kind of heavy use on them. One or two dropouts or too many errors and DAT won't play. Those machines had to be coddled and really babied for any reliability. I've seen DAT recorded on one machine, and not play on the machine in the studio across the hall, and when both were brand new. DAT was intended to be a home use, consumer grade, light duty format. Not a studio workhorse. Not even close to archival.

 

Intent, totally agree, a sound they like, agree. Personally I'm not sure about accurate, because of the subtleties previously mentioned, and us not knowing the accoustic of the recording environment. Musician often prefer the sound that isn't accurate.

Digital Production vs Reel to Reel? Modern digital, done well is incredibly good and easily, losslessly copied. Reel to reel, even the first generation mix down has lost and added something from the multi-track. Obviously that doesn't mean that some won't prefer the reel to reel, or indeed another generation removed from the multi-track.

 

great info Randoms

ps. people still argue that we can not hear over 20 khz but still people play instrument that are above that and like it, and doenst affect that we hear it or not, to the musician when the trumpet sounds is in the air.

 

What instruments play higher than a concert organ at 7.04 KHz?

If you can't hear something, then your brain - you know, the things that actually process air vibrations so that you have a sense of hearing - has nothing to process and there is nothing for you to hear. But you still think there's some effect caused by inaudible harmonics? I think you're making things up.

And even if someone could play an instrument that made 'sounds' beyond the range of human hearing, how could the musician hear such notes in order to play them in tune and on key?

 

i saw it in a google tabell

 

The Ultimate Analog Music Is Back

 

You would think this would be obvious, but we're deep in the realm of belief here.

 

Home Audio
The Ultimate Analog Music Is Back
Surging demand for vinyl LPs has raised hopes for the reel-to-reel tape deck, which returns to sale this month for the first time in decades.
By
Stefan Nicola
‎May‎ ‎8‎, ‎2018‎ ‎12‎:‎00‎ ‎AM‎ ‎EDT


Reel-To-Reel Tape Decks Are Making a Comeback



Reel-To-Reel Tape Decks Are Making a Comeback

It’s no secret that sales of vinyl music are at the highest in decades. Even the lowly cassette tape is regaining popularity as some millennials embrace analog music over digital downloads and streaming services.

But for the first time in more than two decades, a German company is reviving what may be the ultimate format: a new reel-to-reel tape machine.

Dusseldorf-based Roland Schneider Precision Engineering this week will introduce four Ballfinger reel-to-reel machines, bringing back a technology that dominated professional music recording for most of the 20th century and is now making a comeback with audiophiles and artists including Lady Gaga.


The sleek machines, some of them customizable, will retail from about 9,500 euros ($11,400) for the basic version to about 24,000 euros for the high-end model, which features three direct-drive motors, an editing system and walnut side panels.


The top-range models can feature VU meters and walnut side panels. Prices start around $11,000 and can more than double from there.
Source: Ballfinger
“Digital media is great, but experiencing music is more than just listening to a sound file -- it’s sensual, it’s reels that turn and can be touched,” says Roland Schneider, the machine’s designer. “When it comes to audio quality, nothing else in the analog world gets you closer to the experience of being right there in the recording studio than reel-to-reel tape.”

Schneider’s machines made a big splash when he unveiled prototypes at an industry fair in Hamburg last year. A designer who has built a high-end record player, watches and a Bauhaus-inspired table lamp, Schneider spent about six years developing the machines. He says he has since received distribution requests for them from more than 80 companies, including ones in the U.S., Hong Kong and Dubai.

Reel-to-reel dominated professional audio recording from the late 1940s, when Bing Crosby helped introduce the technology in the U.S., until the early 1990s, when digital technologies took over because they made editing and reproduction easier and cheaper. These days, more people have likely seen Uma Thurman in “Pulp Fiction” playing Urge Overkill on a reel-to-reel than have ever seen one in the flesh.

Yet with a growing demand for music that sounds different than the overly polished digital recordings that have dominated the charts for the past two decades, studios are dusting off their analog equipment and musicians are rediscovering the old way of producing songs. Lady Gaga, Ryan Adams and the Black Keys are just a few of the artists who have recorded songs to tape in recent years. Industry press has speculated that other manufacturers such as ReVox may follow to revive the format from its glory days.

Vintage tapes are widely available on the internet sites such as The Tape Project or second hand on ebay, but are more readily available in the U.S. than elsewhere. Blank tapes for recording can be bought directly from York, Pennsylvania-based ATR Magnetics as well as French manufacturer Mulann, which offers its RecordingTheMasters brand. Schneider and Mulann, the biggest tape maker, plan to cooperate, but the designer said he couldn't yet share more details of the agreement.

While reel-to-reel is making a comeback, it still barely moves the needle. Schneider, who says he has the capacity to produce about 200 machines a year, seeks to sell 20 to 30 players this year and about double that next year. And he’s in talks with other producers with more manpower (Schneider has two employees and a handful of freelancers) to potentially license his technology, he said.

“The high end hi-fi market is a difficult one, and companies are desperate for innovation,” Schneider said.

Even if the innovation is decades old.


The high-end models feature three direct-drive motors.
Source: Ballfinger

Per The Ultimate Analog Music Is Back

 

That pretty much sums it up.