Discussion: SH Forum Influence on "The Industry"

Re: Re: Discussion: SH Forum Influence on "The Industry"

There's a hiatus on religion here?

You mean, we *won't* be discussing audiophilia any more?

 

Re: Re: Re: Discussion: SH Forum Influence on "The Industry"

Well, the childish 'Ghastley/Mewtilator' chorus could couch their critiques among praise for things the *like* about those guys' work.
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Is that crickets chirping I hear?

 

In Your Humble Opinion.

Actually music was more INVOLVING when I heard it on the radio as a kid-- I fell madly in love with so many tunes that way, back in the 60's and 70's.

I think music is jsut as INVOLVING for teens who are listening obsessively
to their mp3 and CDs as it ever was.

I think audiophlies are sometimes about as far removed from that original INVOLVEMENT with songs and music, as can be.

 

er...whence comes this peculiar idea that crappy sounding recordings are
necessarily uninvolving?


*only in audiophile land*

 

Re: Re: Re: Discussion: SH Forum Influence on "The Industry"

No, there was a 2 week hiatus on religion/politics threads a few weeks ago in the Off Topic area.

HZ

 

There is a fine line from where the initial emotional impact and where the cereberal thought takes over.

 

OK, got it now.


Would the Gorts please provide a tools so we can draw Venn diagrams, to avoid this confusion in the future?

thanks.

 

Which is why it is so impotant that those of us who do know the difference try to educate everyone we can about what those differences are

Oh, he gets it alright. But as you say, a lot of people don't care at all. He gets THAT too. And I garantee you if one million people are going to buy a release with the wrong version of the songs or a more "modern" sounding mix, reissue producers are going to create more "modern" sounding mixes and they aren't going to spend the time and effort required to locate the correct tapes. They will spend that time remastering something ELSE with a more "modern" sound and incorrect tapes.

Producers like Astley and Mew do NOT work for an audiophile reissue company, and they have an entirely different agenda than someone like Steve does. They are not TRYING to perfectly reproduce the sound of the original LP. They are mastering to a sound they think will sell to the largest number of a least common denominator audience. That is their JOB. Which is why you get reactions like "If you don't like this version go buy another one" - they aren't trying to please YOU in the first place. They don't CARE about YOU, or what YOU want. They do not have time to spend months finding the correct master to Highway 61 Revisited, or have any real motivation to DO so.

The point is, whatever anyone on this board feels about the work these men do is irrelevant. Even if everone who visits this board refuses to buy any product they worked on, it would make almost no dent in total sales. So WHY should they listen to US? If you want someone to do something YOUR WAY and do not have the authority to ORDER them to do it YOUR way, probably the ONLY way you will EVER get them to doit YOUR WAY is to SOMEHOW convince them IT IS IN THEIR OWN SELF INTEREST. Otherwise, they will KEEP doing it their way. (This isn't rocket science either. - it is human nature.)

Anyway, the best way to catch flies is with honey, so to speak. Even if someone really IS a hack, you aren't going to stop them from being a hack by constantly telling them what a hack they are. And if we expect to have any REAL voice outside of the audiophile community or to EVER convince more engineers to do things the way Steve does them, we're going to have to make these people want to listen to us and CARE about our opinions.

I think the point HZ was trying to make with this thread is that MAYBE we could start working towards trying to have a REAL effect on how things are done in the industry We already know some high-level industry types browse here sometimes. Like HZ, I'd like to see us create an atmosphere on this board where those people might WANT to join our discussions. I think the idea of Astley or Mew coming here and contributing their ideas would be great. Maybe some of Steve's philosophy would start to rub off on THEM. Maybe we could begin to understand THEIR attitudes, and the pressures THEY are under. Hey, even a small compromise is better than what we have now. Unfortunately, real change comes SLOWLY, if at all. As it stands, we aren't even going to get THAT. If I was one of the guys who are constantly bashed here, I'd NEVER visit this forum, and I'd dismiss us all as a bunch of A-holes. And I think anyone else on this board would react the same way.

The sad truth is, in ANY industry, people like Steve Hoffman are an anomalie. Most people do not have the luxury (or the talent) to require near perfection in the finished product. In MOST cases perfection is not economically feasible. And different people have different ideas of what "perfect" is. In most industries how "perfect" the finished product is is the result of numerous compromises and business considerations that have nothing to DO with the finished product.

Astley, Mew, et. al. do NOT work for or own audiophile labels. They are NOT trying to produce audiophile reissues, and seem to think the whole "audiophile" thing is pointless. But from THEIR point of view, it probably IS.


WE are the ones who want to change things. WE want what WE think is better sound quality. So WE have to make the effort to get people to LISTEN to US. If you want to change the way someone does something you have to be willing to step into another man's shoes and see the world from HIS point of view. Until then, you will never understand why he does what he does, or know what you might say to make him WANT to change. And until someone WANTS to change, they won't. The point is, if you want something from someone, screaming at them probably will just set them more firmly into the pattern you want to change. Personal attacks are counter-productive, here or anywhere else.

 

Red Trumpet gave the forum (a quote by me/blush) some exposure with their ad in the last/final issue of Listener. People are listening out there...

Todd

 

I read your whole post, but given your reasoning here, why even bother with this board? You say that we can change things and then you say we can't, and any attempt is pointless. Which is it? Make me understand your point.

 

Hi Grant,

I read his whole post as well. I thought it was crystal clear, and I didn't come away thinking that he thought that "any attempt is pointless".

Perhaps you can quote his post so that we can see how you arrived at that conclusion?

Regardless, to answer your "why bother with the board" sentence:

The primary reason most of us are here is NOT to influence the industry. It's to hang out and discuss with Steve and each other - about what has the best sound, how mastering is done, etc. etc.

HZ

 

Holy Zoo/Jeff:

Yes, it's possible that our collective voice would be strengthened were we more "professional," but I wasn't aware that influencing music industry policy was a goal of this forum. I've felt that this forum was a place to share feelings about music--and as the average member here cares deeply about music, those feelings can be pretty passionate. Letting off steam at being terribly disappointed in a particular reissue, for example, probably isn't "professional." But it's what I thought this forum was all about. [Of course, should the industry take notice of comments on this forum, so much the better.]

I don't know, Jeff. I read you post not so much as a plea to bring about positive change in the recording industry as I do a plea that we not say or do anything that might tarnish Steve Hoffman's image in the industry. But as this is probably one of the best-behaved forums on the Net, I don't see much need for concern.

 

I agree! It's supposed to be a -FUN- place to hang out and share knowledge. What more can we want?. Nearly Utopia...

 

You are correct, that is not a stated goal of this forum. Mind you, we don't really have much in the way of stated goals at all, other than the intelligent exchange of ideas.

Which was really the point of my thread - to talk about goals a bit. I believe that there is room for a music forum on the net that is seen by the industry as being a source of useful input, as opposed to a collection of ranting audiophiles.

I dunno... personally the notion of "letting off steam", particularly by bashing someone, is not what I want this forum to be "all about". There are lots of other music forums for that.

That really wasn't what was on my mind when I started this thread. In fact, I don't worry much about that any more since a) we have forum rules in place to address this very issue, and b) we've had several separate discussions about the necessity to sometimes pull posts and threads when they compromise Steve in any way.

Rather, I was truly being straight-forward: without naming names, at least one "industry professional" has indeed started posting in the last couple of months. And I'm *thrilled* with this, and it dawned on me that maybe we actually have a shot at getting more industry folks to chime in.

I know, rather idealistic of me. But I can dream, can't I?

HZ

 

Why not? We already have one of the Top Industry Professionals here with us all the time..-STEVE- I am truly thankful for that...Any others would be most welcomed and cherished.

 

Jeff:
I think what concerned me about your post was the unspoken suggestion that members here make an effort to be polite and professional so as to not frighten off any recording engineers who might care to drop by. Hell, I have to be careful, polite and professional daily--a forum such as this is one of the few welcome opportunities to relax and not worry so much about it. That's what makes it fun.

This forum, with its intelligent exchange of ideas, is fascinating. I would think that any engineer who truly cared about his work would also find it fascinating, particularly since it's here that his work can truly be understood and appreciated. Those whose work is constantly criticized will never participate. Never. Would you? But there are hundreds of others who just might. But should they not, I think it would have more to do with the fear their work might be examined a little too closely than the fear of being "bashed." And aside from a few cute nicknames, I really haven't seen much at all in the way of bashing.

Of course we all stand to gain should more engineers choose to participate. I sure hope more do. I just think that "toning down" comments/criticism to keep them posting might, if maybe no defeat the purpose of the forum, sure make it a less fun place to hang out.

 

Glad to hear that we're all encouraged to be as candid as possible. Name calling, as such, is childish and inappropriate for this forum. But if it's occurred here, I guess I've missed it. Again, postings don't get much more intelligent and polite than exist on this forum.

 

Imagine there are some VIP's who visit here just to read.

Just as easy with odds as moderately high as seeing your high school sweetheart in a diner you walk into tomorrow. Sure it can happen, sillies!

And none of us would have ANY clue. Wave at them lurkers! Woohoo!

So, be responsible. No people pooping.

 

Sure glad I hung onto my original vinyl of this one! Did it get the "modern sound" treatment too?

 

Why it pays to visit this forum...

Guess what I've been listening to all evening, Craig?

 

If one professional comes, more will follow.