DIY turntable isolation

I have a VPI Scoutmaster II. I'm looking to add some DIY isolation and was going to try the inner tube/roller block setup found here:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/...o-expensive-high-end-racks-bits-bobs-needed-1

However, I'm not 100% sure the best way to adapt this hack to my specific turntable. I have a separate motor and the motor/table need to be aligned properly. Most of the pics I see for this hack are using components that are flat with short or no feet which makes suspending easy.

If I remove the feet on my TT, I'd have to stack several of the furniture cups to achieve the proper height. Not sure if that would adversely affect the sound or not and/or make the setup unstable.

Any advice on trying this hack with my specific turntable?

 

I have to be able to level mine often, so I need functioning leveling feet. Everyone loves the tube method, but it is not for me. I also put my table on spikes for a few years, but it really made mess of the bass. I went back to the stock feet and used Herbies Fat Dots under the three feet, and it was a really good move as the bass really tightened up.

With your situation, I would get a block of wood and try different materials as a second set of feet under the block. That way, you can experiment and see what works the best.

Almost forgot, probably can’t go wrong with a shelf it that works for your space.

 

I go for mass loading. So the shelving I use is filled with sand. Then under the TT I have concrete patio bricks, then chemical rubber bottle stoppers size ten. Then a thick teak floating shelf, then the TT: Kuzma Stabi/Stogi S
The other TT is also on the bricks but using an old VPI sprung shelf on the bricks:Rega P5.
At each step I leveled the items best I could starting with the stand.
The fact the TTs are 15 feet away from the speakers also helps.

 

Decades ago, I lived in a house built in the 1920s. Every foot fall shook any table I set my Thorens TD 150 on.

The solution was to wall mount a shelf, bolting it into the studs, and running support chains to the front of the shelf so it was completely supported.

After that was installed, my friends could dance without a hint of of record skipping.

 

I'd agree that, if you can, wall mounting is the way to go.

I have my Gyrodec wall mounted using an original (before they considerably cheapened the product) Target Wall Mount but I've also done a lot of experimentation with different shelf materials, both in the Target wall mount and a standard 3 shelf target rack that I had the table sited on previously.

There are some fairly elegant and inexpensive wall mount solutions if one is handy and can do DIY. From there you're looking at shelf material(s) which can also have a significant effect on table performance. I don't think there is any one shelf material that will provide universal results with all tables-there are just too many variables: sprung vs. suspended tables, hard feet vs. softer feet, etc.

As support materials, I've messed around with all kinds of things: maple cutting boards, glass (both standard and laminated in various thicknesses), granite, marble, corian, baltic birch, phenolic, MDF, acrylic etc.

One approach that seems to be common in many of the "audiophile" or "high end" support shelves is the use of dissimilar materials in a constrained layer approach. In my experimentation with my table I found a constrained layer shelf to offer the best performance and most natural balanced sound. Ultimately, I settled on a 3 layer shelf consisting of 1/8" neoprene sheet sandwiched between a lower layer of baltic birch and a top layer of extruded acrylic. The acrylic is the pricey component in creating a shelf like this; if I was to start over or really wanted to keep the budget down, I would simply look at using baltic birch for both the top and bottom layer.

And if I was looking at simply buying a single layer shelf I would probably also look at baltic birch which is, in itself, a constrained layer product. I'd take it, in fact, over any of the materials listed above as the best shelf material in audio applications and it is among the least expensive as well.

So my suggestion would be to do a constrained layer shelf within an existing rack if you have one; the alternative, if you do not, is to do a constrained layer shelf on top of some kind of footer experimenting with soft and hard footers. Vibrapods vs. black diamond cones or aluminum cones for example. Do a google search for "vibrapod sandwich" to come up with more info.

 

Per the Scoutmaster manual pg 2

"Setting up the Scoutmaster

The Scoutmaster must be placed on a flat, level surface. This will make setup
easy, provide better sound quality, and put less strain on the main bearing.
Place the turntable chassis, with the square cutout on the left, on the shelf or
stand where it will be used. The better isolation you provide the Scoutmaster
2, the better it will sound. You can get very good isolation by placing the
Scoutmaster 2 on a maple butcher block cutting board about 2” thick sitting
on 4 squash balls in ash trays. Very inexpensive and easy to find."

​

This should get you an inexpensive solution and if it doesn't work, you can take it back.

M~

​

 

Hi, im new to the forum and just want to add this info for anyone that may have use for it or any comments. I have recently resurrected a somewhat neglected Harman Kardon T40 and replacing the missing feet was one of the areas of need. These are some areas I am experimenting with in budget isolation, but more more from speaker type floor vibration than footfalls at this point. First I found a nice set of molded 1-1/2" round Sorbothane table feet on ebay with the 6mm threads already molded in. I added self stick 3/16 furniture felt to the bottom of the Sorbothane feet and that worked out pretty well, but always on the search for more stability I considered a granite slab -- but then another idea im trying out from an economy angle is (don't laugh) high density 3/4" thick rubber patio paver tiles to set the table on. They are very dense rubber and heavy, im hoping they will offer a worthwhile degree of absorption from below -- unfortunately this is not likely to help with footfalls. But if anyone has any thoughts or suggestions on the benefits of using such a rubber slab under a table Id be glad to hear them -- thanks much, yambo

 

I have adjustable shelving (mdf flexy) and the table sits on a Bamboo cutting board and under that is 16mm approx' rubber anti vibration matting.

For some reason I like Bamboo under components

I have also always liked a multi layered approach under a table, using different materials (I have a large concrete paver that normally sits under the anti vibration matting, need to add strength to the shelf first)

 

I don't have a TT, but my other components love the bamboo shelving I have switched to recently.

Disclaimer: I have followed the "sandwich" principle used by Mapleshade, meaning that between the component and its vibration sink (eg. bamboo chopping board - the thicker, the better) there should be some hard material (they use brass cones, while I use DH labs cones) to enable energy draining into the vibration sink, or platform. This sandwich in turn needs to be decoupled from whatever is underneath. This is the area where sorbothane can be used. Using soft stuff or plastic feet between the component and its vibration absorption platform negates the above concept. Lots of people ignore this and thus never fully realize the potential of their shelving.

 

I made my own TT platform just recently, for my RP3 that sits on a sideboard. The price of buying some of the more bascis platforms seemed pretty ludicrous, so:

- Pack of four 2" 'Isolate it' sorbothane half-hemisphere feet: £15
- 3/4" thick slab of slate for a local reclaim site: £5
- Total cost: £20

Sprit-levelled out (thin piece of pastic needed under one of the feet) and sits flat as a pancake.

Seems to do the job - quite honestly I was surprised what an immediate improvement it made to the sound.

(...was going to paste a picture in but it seems you can only link to them online...)

 

The tube isolation is a novel idea, and I am sure it works. But I think the problem is that most shelving does not offer enough stability and isolation from vibration. A slab of marble works miracles too. It is acoustically dead, quite dense, not prone to sympathetic vibration. For the turntable, why not consider the opposite? Instead of air, why not super dense and massive?

 

From others in the hobby, I was told that Marble and Granite have an objectionable resonance, are not a good substrate.... the better substrate is black slate if I recall the discussions correctly.

Personally I haven't tried Marble or Granite.
*shrugs*

 

MDF is about as good as it gets, but it's not as sexy rock slabs.

 

Not even close. Bamboo and maple a far harder woods.

 

Harder isn't always better, you don't wan't it to resonate or ring.

 

That's why bamboo (grass) works great.

 

To the OP - Barry Diament covered this in great detail in some threads here....I did a quick search but got a lot of results I didn't want to sift through. Might be worth the time to check it out....he certainly knows his craft.

 

Wood does not ring. Where did you get this idea from? Marble and granite, on the other hand, do. Look, these are well proven things. No need to improvize.

Btw, there are even harder and better woods (ipe, ebony), it's just that they are more expensive. Bamboo and maple are readily available and affordable.

 

I disagree, wood does ring. Ring is another word for resonate. I'm out.

 

With all due respect, Barry Diament (great man, I really miss his input btw) was plain wrong on at least two counts. First he never aknowledged that wood can have vibration absorption properties (until recently I did not think it did either) and second, he used to suggest that isolators like his trademark ball bearing devices are all that one needs. Wrong again, you need a vibration absorption platform underneath.

 

I don't have the money to buy isolation platforms that cost hundreds, if not thousands of dollars, so I created my own. And it works. Does it work as well as those super expensive ones? Probably not, but it did make a difference and I've continued to use it under my TT for several years.

Maple Butcher Block
Hockey Pucks
Furniture Felt Pads.

I attached 2 - 3" felt pads to both sides of a Hockey Puck. I then used 3 of them underneath the butcher block and set the TT on top. No resonance whatsoever and I can tap my TT while playing without any effect on cartridge tracking.

 

I wall mounted my Scoutmaster. Then, leaving the turntable feet in place for proper leveling, I placed cups with Ball Bearings under the wood platform holding the table. This was good, but I was still getting feedback when I placed the needle in the record groove, platter not spinning, and turned up the volume. If the isolation is still not good, this is where you will get the speakers to howl with feedback. Be ready to lift the needle quickly to stop damage to your speakers. Sooooo, I then cut up and placed small sections of an old turntable platter mat (made of sorbothane) ATOP each Ball bearing under the wood platform, so that the ball contacted the small piece of platter mat instead of the wood. This did the trick. There are other methods as has been mentioned, but you can indeed do it yourself.

 

I recently moved my hi-fi back downstairs after several years of it living upstairs. This has been a very positive move in itself; however, the position it now lives in is, unfortunately, near several less-than-rigid floorboards. As a consequence, playing vinyl can be problematic if folks are moving around nearby, as the needle jumps around.

Of course, the long-term answer is to fetch up the carpet and sort out the floorboards; however, there is much large furniture in the vicinity and I'm wondering if there is a short term solution that will enable me to enjoy listening without the risk of damage that can be done by having my needle jump every time someone walks by.

I'm considering either placing the turntable on a bike inner tube or getting something like Sorbothane and wondered whether anyone had any experience of damping floor movement?

The turntable sits atop an Atacama Equinox rack. For what it's worth my turntable is an AR EB-101. The arm and platter are on a fully isolated sub-chassis formed by a pressed steel T-bar, spring suspended and damped at three points. However, all that happens when someone walks past is that the sub chassis rocks as the floor moves! I'm suspicious, therefore, as to whether anything will, in fact, dampen the floorboard movement sufficiently to act as a genuine temporary fix. Any thoughts or comments?

 

I have no experience with the inner tube thing, but I'll bet it'll work! I do have experience with AR turntables. Apparently your model is prone to skipping. The funny thing about that, AR is known for great isolation from bumps and its great feedback isolation. Of the several different AR XA's I have owned, my first one was a 1974 model with a black hammertone finished deck. This version (at least this one) had very low rate springs. Its bounce rate was about 2X per second, and it was immune to footfalls. I used this turntable for my house parties. (shame on me) The apartment floor moved, so did the platter which bounced greatly, but s l o w l y, never once did it skip. The cartridge was a Shure M-91ED tracking at 1 gram.

My current AR is an earlier two motor model with a smooth slate grey deck. Its spring rate is 5 bounces per second, and will skip when bounced more than slightly.

If your AR has a high bounce rate, you may want to look into a spring upgrade. I will be looking into this as well. My current AR isn't so prone to skipping, but not so ridiculously immune as my first one was.

 

Is wall mount arrangement possible? That would solve the problem.