Do CD players vary in sound quality?

Couldn't believe I stumbled on a Pioneer Elite player at Goodwill for $39! I almost bought it just to have one, but I don't play cds anymore. Those were very high end, weren't they? There was a dvd player to go with it but it didn't have hDMI so I passed. I went back a few days ago and both units were still there!

 

I have to disagree, the transport system can make a very noticeable difference where sound quality is concerned, It's one of the reasons CD players sound different.

 

Have to disagree in turn. As long as the mechanism is stable then the main arbiter is DAC and amp and speakers. Not even in that order either. IMO of course. The transport can differ a lot (I've used three different ones all going into the one DAC, albeit separately - connect one, disconnect the other, etc) and the transport made the last difference.

This was a £100 Sony blu-ray player against a £600 Marantz and one other. Likewise, with others in my current setup. Very minimal differences.

 

But did make a difference?

I'm actually talking about the transport mech in a CD player the players also have a DAC inside as you know. I'm not taking about the system as a whole. Everything plays a part, the mech, the receiver chip, the clock, the DAC chip and the output stage, and the implementation of each and all.

 

Not when played through the same DAC. My current setup goes via analogue and optical and those are the minor differences I referred to. The earlier comparisons didn't.

 

Do you have the option of coax? I nearly always found coax to be better than optical.

Whether it was digital out to DAC or PC to DAC.

Myself I found noticeable differences with same DAC using different players as transports, the DAC was very revealing though, I had by-passed the output of the DAC with 1:1 audio transformers (Cinemag hi-nickel).........it was a voltage out DAC chip.
Edit: The signal was taken directly from the output legs of the DAC chip out through the transformers, instead of going through a bunch of caps, resistors and Op-amps.

These differences are going to be different in each and every system, so I'm not saying you are wrong, your experience is as valid as mine or anyone's.

 

None of my CDPs sound bad, but there is a quite noticeable sound difference between them. The one that sound the best IMO is the one that is best designed and use the best components. The Accuphase I have is most definitely better, and there are reasons for this, many reasons.

 

CDs do not have "1s and 0s" as far as I understand it. They have physical pits and lands.

I do generally agree that the best sound quality bang for the buck is in the stand alone DAC. There are any number of USB DACs out there. For those who aren't going to spin SACDs, then avoiding the cost of the transport and re-investing that amount into, say, the DAC power supply or analog output seems like the way to go.

 

Those pits are how the 1s and 0s are stored, just like with old IBM punch cards they were stored with a hole or absense of hole in the card.

The laser bounces off of them and the result is binary data. 1s and 0s. And even cheap ones are very good at it.

If you want to know just how good, go buy a cheap $20 DVD drive for your PC and use it to rip a CD 100 times. Then look at how often the checksum differs.

 

They may be "very good at it", but they aren't good enough to be the very best. Not even close. I believe that the mechanism in THIS ONE is used by Playback Designs, for example. They will not use a lesser transport. Ask them.

 

It would seem to me that 'good enough' is when checksum is correct. It cannot be more correct than correct.

 

Yes, I'm in the same boat as you. Anyone can spend whatever they want and I'm sure it's top quality but the law of diminishing returns will occur at some point. If I had to spend that on a CDP, I'd just stay away, CDs do not offer me enough enjoyment for that type of figure. At some point, I will be willing to invest about $2K in digital playback but that will cover high res as well.

I'm glad the sweet spot for my TT setup was $3,500.00 (Table/Cart/Phono) and that is expensive to me and I'd never assume that is the real sweet spot - just for me. I have not upgraditis. I'm sure it can be achieved for much less.

 

I will use this and the great advice of KT88 in the future when I supplement my listening with digital playback. I'm not sure what NAS is off the top of my head though.

Now if we can start seeing high res files priced at a good market price. I'd love to see modern releases for $9.99 - $14.99 and Remasters for $14.99 - $19.99. I'd be in the market. Hell, they might even get the attention of a younger target audience and sell in volume.

Oh and transparency in the mastering and source.

 

Checksum

 

Hard drive attached by network. Network Attached Storage.

 

Love these quotes about the player.

• Dedicated digital output only SA-CD/CD transport with ultra-high-speed FPGA for digital processing and highly accurate signal pickup.

• Ultra massive chassis construction and newly developed high-rigidity, high-precision SA-CD/CD drive.

• Sophisticated signal processing technology assures excellent signal quality also from conventional CD media.

So does highly accurate signal pickup mean more accurate than is physically possible? Meaning checksum is already as perfect as possible. LOL, where is that Golden State Bridge when you need one?
Sophisticated signal processing technology ASSURES. Love that one, meaning you can't be any more sure than a perfect checksum?

I'm sure the power supply and DAC are of great quality in this player which is what these stand alones seem to fall back on as their big selling points. But at what price/quality as opposed to a stand alone DAC with stand alone power supply and cheap transport?

 

So how does it sound??

 

Give it up, I never implied that I have heard the player in question.

 

Is that not a generalization though? It would depend on many things. Many things are indeed able to be mostly understood within reason, without directly experiencing them.

For all you know, he could know the guy that designed it, and has inside information that it is all based on a player that costs $5,000, therefore making his statement very viable.

>>>>>Uh just sayin....

 

I have to admit that I'm guilty also of this notion that digital can be different with this anti jitter bull. Zero's and one's are just that and do not differ until they are changed to analog or vice versa. Otherwise digital is just digital in my book. I've read many threads on here where folks claim adamantly that they here a difference (with different digital gear) and others never. For now I'm going to dismiss this notion of there being a difference in the digital domain until proven otherwise, yet can't help be fascinated by the conversation.

 

It's always best to assume that anything that is dramatically misunderstood or under-appreciated is BS until someone comes along to "prove it". Ya know, natural curiosity and all. Additionally, you may have found that members here at SH Forum who've invested many, many thousands into digital front ends are simply looking for attention. There couldn't be any other reason!?

Bliss....

 

With all due respect you should go hear some high end equipment.You obviously don't know what you're talking about.

 

Thanks! Also, I hope my comment didn't come off as offensive. I think it's perfectly legitimate for someone to spend whatever they want on components to achieve what their goals. I certainly know most people in my world think I'm crazy for spending what I do on music and audio. It's my life and I enjoy it!

Nice things can cost money: automobiles, nice suits, shoes, etc. You can also find value in these items as well. I'm a firm believer in well made products. I spend decent money on everything from food to fresh coffee to music. I like nice things, I work hard for it.

I really hope I didn't insult anyone. I'm kind of analyzing my comment. It is way too easy to offend in these types of threads.

 

Well, it would be a generalization if it was meant in such a way. It wasn't as I asked it specifically in the context of how someone would know if it was true or not in regards to that player....although I took the post I addressed as a generalization in regards to players in different price brackets.....hope that makes sense.
And I would hope if that if he had experience with the designer ect' he would mention something along those lines...even hint at it, if only to qualify his statement.

Hay, he may be right, but without hearing the player in question against others in an appropriate system.....how is anyone to know, that includes myself also.

 

Then you have missed the opinions of the most well informed of us. Jitter or lack thereof is very important in digital audio transmission. In a computer file transfer as sent in packets, you are correct that a 1 is a 1 and a 0 is a 0, and that if they are all there in the correct order, it is 100% intact. PCM audio transmission differs in that it is time based and relies on a clock called a word clock to sync the data between source and receiver. Any data rate error due to the work clock or transmission medium limitations is jitter and that effects the playback. Also, even after data is delivered and we will assume 100% intact... to a DAC chip, different DAC chips implement differing processes in the digital domain and so the output to analog can vary before any actual analog circuitry sees this newly generated waveform. That is also qualitative. Both are in the digital domain. Recently developed devices are better at handling these problems now than those were in the past but they are still limited to their abilities.
-Bill