Do CD players vary in sound quality?

Thanks.
After giving my current CD player a solid listen with headphones it is warm- to the point of lacking clarity and detail. The tuner of my vintage receiver sounds clearer and more open.
Do you have a recommendation for a detailed, open player <1200 or so?

 

Many years ago (circa 1986) I was given a comprehensive demonstration of three Sony CD players by a specialist store. Three Sony units were used - an entry level model, a mid range model, and a high end (esoteric series) model. The CD album used for the test was Pink Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon. The CD players all played through the same beefy amp and big floor standers, in an acoustically treated room (the "sound lounge" as they called it).

Anyway, all three CD players DID sound subtly different, but not in a dramatic way. And while each player had its own signature, I found it difficult to say which sounded better. They all sounded great to me at the time, and I couldn't honestly say that the high end unit was more pleasing that the entry level model.

 

Lucky you …! You don’t have to spend too much money on the digital front end!
I’m a very modest guy my self too … I’m very curious about older CDP. If I can find them on cheap, I just got to get them … (Not allways)

 

No one has to spend much on any audio gear, but you get the fidelity that you pay for. Fronting $50,000 invested in speakers and amplification with a sub $1,500 digital front end, for example, would result a sound that is a single very weak link away from something very, very special.

 

It was not anything such I ment … Of course you have to get everything in harmony! When/if you are happy with your system, there is no need to upgrade all the time. The music is far more important to me than if it sounds like mega bucks!

 

I started off with the most basic CD player and by now have owned about 10 machines, each a step better and more expensive that it's predecessor. I now own the Ayre C5Mp, it's the priciest of the players I've owned but leaps and bounds better sounding than all that came before it. Still not really expensive when you compare it to the 24 times pricier DCS stack.

 

CDPs do not sound alike at all in my experience. No shortage of differences in tonal palette (albeit generally subtle) and a rather wide range in ability to resolve detail. Dynamics can be rather variable as well. The better the system gets downstream the more apparent this becomes.

 

I upgraded my speakers and amplification, but I dismissed the front end. Didn't think it mattered. Then I tried out the Cary which I now own, and which would compare well with the Ayre, and the leap in sound quality was staggering. It was so convenient to believe that my well reviewed Logitech Transporter was adequate. I'd have not believed the difference had I not heard it in my own listening space.

 

Helps to be able to hear that "Squeak" on "Since I've been loving you"...

 

Perhaps you might expand on what you mean by improvements in detail resolution and dynamics, particularly in the context of capable gear downstream. These things have a HUGE impact on the listening experience and should not be discounted.

I'd also mention that listening fatigue will begin to disappear also. This is an interesting phenomenon that, in my experience, only becomes so obvious during the before/after contrast. This factor is a big deal, believe it or not.

Additionally, the better players will allow for an open soundstage. Tough to appreciate what this is and how important it is without hearing it.

 

I don't think that you understand jitter. It has to do with information in time, and has nothing to do with the noise floor.

 

Are you sure about that?

http://www.tnt-audio.com/clinica/jitter2_e.html

 

I'd certainly agree with all you said. What I was trying to say is that as you improve amplification, speakers etc. the difference between players becomes much more apparent. I have a garden variety 90s Sony CDP in my kitchen system (Onkyo TX-4500 mkII/EPI M50) that sounds quite adequate and musical in the context. Run in my main system the limitations start to show. I also would like to point out that even with CDPs system matching can reap rewards. I have two or three CDPs that are quite good, but one sounds better running with the Yamaha C-4/Epicure M-1/Vandersteen 2c set-up and another with my CJ tube gear/Reference 3a mm de Capos. I'd place the reproduction level of the two units at the same level, but the voicing of one is better in one context and vice versa.

 

Can't say that newer is necessarily better; I've not auditioned and new high-end decks recently, but I'm still very, very happy with my old Sony CDP-470 player from 1989! I lost the remote somehow in a house move back in '96, but apart from that, it's been perfect, and still is!! Lovely large and lush sound; you forget what you're listening to..... there's just music in your room all around you. Clean, silent black backgounds, and distortion free, warm and engrossing vocals, and instuments can make you jump with their range if it's a good disc!! For a 25 year old player, I have no complaints!!

 

Any wave with distortion can be viewed as the sum of the "true" wave form and the distortion.

Jitter distortion is the wave form that you get when you subtract the "true" wave form from the DAC output.

With digital jitter in properly working DAC/ADC, even cheap ones, the wav form coming out of the DAC will be so close to intended wave form that the RMS of the jitter noise will be well below the noise floor and thus not audible to our ears. Just like in a concert hall, the noise from person breathing 7 rows below you is not audible to your ears (though his coughing or sneezing might be)

 

Three Sony players, even at different price points would definitely have the same sonic signature.

 

Your profile is blank, so if we assume that you have 25 year old amplification and speakers then upgrading a single component won't reveal too much. If you put that old player in a chain of modern hi-end gear, then it will be dominated by even an entry level Oppo. Won't even be close.

Layers upon layers of sludge can become the norm. Crank it up and, hey, it's not harsh! LOL. But there is no detail. No background. No micro-dynamics. This will sound normal without anything to contrast against.

 

Not sure if you're talking about 25 year old amplification or a CDP of the same vintage, but in either case it doesn't pay to tar everything with the same brush. I have some electronics that are over 25 years of age and sound as clean as one could wish. I also have an old Nakamichi OMS 7 CDP (mid 80s) that is anything but "sludgy". I won't claim it has the resolution of the best new machines, but when run in a very good system it doesn't embarrass itself, either. The sound is surprisingly similar to that of RTR. Very musically rewarding. CDs were highly regarded by many, even in the earliest days. Yes things have improved, but a good older machine can be quite good also.

 

Hi!
My amplification is a late 90's Yamaha RX-V390RDS receiver, and the speakers are Canon S-25's. Nothing too fancy or high-end, but quite capable of producing clean and clear music which is well defined and tuneful.
Just because equipment is older, it doesn't mean it's got to be bad...... There's a reason why so many appreciate 'vintage' equipment - quality of build and sound!
When playing the Sony CD player, there's nothing hidden under "layers of sludge". There's plenty of detail, and dynamics from that receiver are excellent - Yamaha know how to make a decent amplifier.... it may not live up to your obvious 'audiophile' expectations, but then many of us can't afford to be 'audiophiles', but can still get a good quality of sound for a fraction of the money. It may not have the 'glamour', but it certainly doesn't breed the snobbery either.

Thanks.... Very sensible words...

 

The thread topic asks if Cd players vary in sound quality. The answer involves a caveat- depends on the relative fidelity of the speakers and amplification. Drawing a conclusion on this matter based on experience with lower fidelity (not "BAD", just not hi-fi) speakers and amplification would be a mistake. Nothing glamorous or snobby about it. You could invest $2,500 in a modern system fronted by a standard Oppo and then switch back to any stock 80s CD player and hear a far from subtle decline in sound quality. You would also grasp the sludge concept. Whether or not you would get value from such an expenditure is not guaranteed.

 

How capable is an Oppo 103 as a CD player, using its analog out? Would a bottom end Denon, Yamaha, NAD, Cambridge Audio etc sound better, worse, or the same?

 

Yes, differences certainly exist. I would not agree on the "sludge" description of a really good early CDP, however. I would tend more to reserve that more for the sound from more recent lower-end DVD players and such when used to play CDs. Poor quality units of whatever vintage are just that.

 

One fantastic thing about audio, is that we hear subtle changes/variations in sound through rather high distortion. There is no problems listening to speakers and detect very low levels of distortion or very subtle changes on another component, even though the distortion on the speakers is always magnitudes higher. Heck we can even hear changes on the music we are playing, that is very small.
So we really don´t need components with ultra-low distortion, if they exist, to hear differences in CDPs, if there are differences we can normally hear them.

 

I guess I should preface this by saying I am a measurements guy first and foremost. I like looking at freq response plots and other performance characteristics. My simple answer to the question posed, is yes cd players do vary in sound quality. To illustrate this please look at the measurements for these two players:

http://www.stereophile.com/content/dcs-puccini-sacd-playback-system-measurements

http://www.stereophile.com/content/emotiva-erc-2-cd-player-measurements

comparing a dcs to an emotiva shows differences in freq response, distortion, error correction etc. this will all translate imo to variations in sound quality, how could it not right? Open and shut case, haha! But seriously what I have found is that even pretty cheap cd players measure very very well in most categories that would be of importance to a listener. cd players are a wonderful invention indeed, they allow you to achieve very high levels of performance in audio playback!

 

If the deviation takes place below the noise floor it will not translate into variations in sound quality. The shape differences of the signal can be detected with instruments yet still be too subtle to sound different because of limitations in our hearing physiology.

That's why I like blind listening tests over raw stats. It lets our ears be the judge without outside influences that can result in psychological confirmation bias.