Do you use a subwoofer for stereo playback?

You are missing out on a lot not running a sub with those speakers. My speakers are 35 Hz – 25 kHz and I notice the improvement my sub makes even with solo violin or lute music. It improves imaging and depth, and helps bring out the tone and woodiness of the instrument.

When I first home auditioned a sub, my wife was against the purchase as unnecessary for our big floor standing speakers. We listened to Bach's Solo Sonatas and Partitas for Violin when I turned the sub off. My wife instantly changed her mind about getting the sub and even asked if a bigger one would be better (we did get a bigger one).

 

Yes! Always. BTW, the only way I know the sub is on is to turn it off. Can not tell bass is coming from it. Sounds just like all bass coming from mains. Set up correctly and a sub is a wonderful thing.

 

I used a sub for a while in my system but never really warmed up to it.
For me it's stereo only..

 

I have a sub for my home theatre surround system. My main stereo system uses full range floor standing speakers, and no sub is required or wanted.

 

I've always wanted the matching Paradigm Monitor sub that I didn't buy when I bought my Monitor 9s....I remember that I liked the combo of the 9s and the sub (though no idea what size speaker)--I liked the m9s better than the 11s, but the 11s had this nice deeper "warm" low end--the sub added that to the M9s.

 

I use my old AR3a speakers as 'low frequency reinforcement' speakers. They cannot really be called subwoofers. They sit right next to my full-range front speakers, so there is no time delay. The tweeter and midrange drivers have been disconnected. Initially I placed them in back of me, but I could easily hear that they were behind me, so I moved them to the front of my listening room. They have made a HUGE improvement in my listening pleasure. Since thyr were originally designed as music speakers, they have really tight, punchy bass. No boomy, bloated bass.

 

Absolutely ! Unless the recording has plenty of bass in which case I turn the sub off. My mains go down to 39 hz (+/-3db ) with terrific punch and I run them in LARGE. More than enough for my 12X12 room.

 

REL T3

 

My REL is hit or miss with vinyl. sometimes it can sound like unorganized noise and I just turn it off. overall, the REL is a welcome addition to any stereo speakers. I've heard them paired with B&W 80s's and they sounded better with the REL in the mix. Not extra "bass sounding" but more filled out across the board.

 

My REL R-328 works great with vinyl and my full size floor speakers. On occasion I run into a recording that has mastering or pressing issues that cause problems and I have to turn the REL off, but that's a very low percentage of my record collection (like just a few in thousands).

 

2.1 for stereo?

YES! Absolutely. Whether classical or modern music, there will be the occasions where you'll appreciate the sub filling in the bottom end.

My Paradigm S8's sound great by themselves, but the SUB1 really elevates the overall experience in my 15x20 room. Crossed over at 50Hz.

 

My answer to the original question is no, only because I have speakers that can deliver 25Hz. Measured while I witnessed. They're antiques, comparable to JBL L100. If I ever get my dream speakers, Joseph Audio Pulsar, I won't hesitate a minute to get a quality pair of subs.

If you want to sidestep any AVR processing, many subs can be installed via speaker-level connections.

That's a MUCH bigger consideration. Strictly a matter of taste. Not to mention the Wild Card of in-wall speakers. No telling how they will sound, with or without a sub; I'm not confident anyone could predict it for you. I think you're in for lots of trial-and-error.

I personally would not be without a robust frequency spread; but I listen to lots of "unreal" music. If your playlist is largely smaller-ensemble acoustic material, you might get away without a sub. I think of the in-walls as more problematic, but I've also not heard any contemporary models.

Your wife is golden!

 

Can they deliver 25Hz loud enough to be useful? Going down to 25 is one thing. Going down to a useful 25 is another.

 

I bought a pair of those Andrew Jones Pioneer floorstanding speakers, the budget series that sell for $250 a pair. I do need a subwoofer to compliment the set, which was designed with 5.1 surround sound in mind. Comparing against headphones,mIncan tell that I'm definitely missing some low-end heat from the FS-52 speakers. They're very good speakers, BTW, especially for the price.

 

I'm not expert enough to confirm that I'm getting optimum performance @ 25, but simply going by my ears (also suspect at my age), I don't feel like anything is lost with my various mad-scientist titles. King Crimson, Secret Chiefs 3, Massive Attack, Aphex Twin, Zappa, Björk etc. Bass is present and tuneful.

But it should be noted that none of my stuff is remotely state-of-the-art.

 

No, but thanks for reminding me to pull out my frequency test disc to find out where my bass frequencies diminish or drop off.

 

I see a lot of people chiming in on whether they like subwoofers or not with their setups.

I suspect that most people, whether they acknowledge it or not, are really 'midrange' people anyway - that's where the vocals, guitars, and much of piano and drums live. In other words, most of the music is in the midrange. And I'm going to assume that when you say "I'm not crazy about bass" that what you mean is you're not crazy about BIG bass.

Having said that, with a frequency range of 75mh and up, you're not going to have ANY bass. Unless the speakers, once installed in the walls, actually perform at a lower frequency than specified. And if you have NO bass the sound (Imho) will be thin and bright. That's not really the thing most music people are striving for.

In my opinion, with your setup, yes, you will need a subwoofer. That doesn't mean it has to go to 20hz and make the walls and floor shake but I think you'll really miss the 45-75hz bass without it.

In the interest of full discloser, I AM a subwoofer guy and like bass.

 

+/- 3 db ?

 

Since 1978 I've used at least one sub per all systems I've had. Like many at the first of this thread, I don't agree with the nomenclature of "2.1" as a way of describing subwooferage.

 

No, subwoofer in use or needed.

 

I am using a REL s/5 with Harbeth SHL5+ in a strict 2 channel setup. The Harbeths go down to ~40Hz and I have the crossover of the REL set at ~39 Hz. Full signal to the sub from an integrated amp. It sounds great.

I think sub/main integration is so hit or miss. So many variables, from room characteristics, sub positioning, crossover design, main speaker design and freq. extension.

Until now, I've never been able to get it right. Every time I've previously used a sub, I either had muddy bass, disconnected bass or subwoofer localization. After a while, I would inevitably give up b/c the costs weren't worth the reward.

Now I can say that when it's right, the bass from sub seamlessly aligns w/the leading edge attack from the mains and the imaging is preserved. Hearing old music with the new sub makes me realize that there is real music that is completely missing without it - and not just the actual bass notes. Fleshing out the bass opens up the sound and adds a physicality that real music has. It's hard to imagine living without it, now. That said, I imagine could put this exact setup in a different room and the whole thing could fall apart.

 

I appreciate all of your comments. I now am looking at speakers that spec at 35 to 25000. And, the next time I see the consultant, I will ask how he proposes to hook up a sub in my system for two channel. If it can be done, it sounds like I should at least check it out. Thanks again!

 

Correct. And I dont care what anyone says, you gotta use a mic and software to set em up right. You can use your ear and crawl on the floor, congratulations you are now getting 48% out of what your sub is capable of!

Just a tiny tweak of the crossover and/or frequency can create huge lumps and massive nulls in your rooms frequency response, your ear is no good for that. If you like a nice big boost at 30hz and a massive null in the bass somewhere, congratulations your done, enjoy the music.

Setting up a sub for a stereo play back system was a huge eye opener for me. It is nowhere near a plug and play , or crawl, installation if you want the best from one in your system. There is a lot of rubbish advice out there in regard to sub integration.

 

I use 2 subs. Each has 4 Stillpoint Ultra 5's with monitors sitting on top with 3 Stillpoint Ultra 5's. The subs are Velodyne DD-15's with a mod done to the power supply. Each sub also has it's on dedicated outlet.

Tim

 

Hmmm. I'd be concerned the turntable isn't well isolated, and the record is functioning like a microphone, picking up the bass the sub is pumping out. That will definitely smear the bass all over the place.