Does the new Project Debut Carbon DC fix the motor hum problem?

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by Alobar, Mar 5, 2015.

  1. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    This is what many of us have wondered about, does the change from the old AC motor to a DC motor eliminate the hum/buzz completely. I would be interested to know if you have conducted the acid test, turn the volume on your pre-amp up a bit and place the stylus on the lead in grooves (with the platter turning) and see if you hear any hum/buzz from your speakers. Additionally the hum/buzz can be easily heard when the stylus tracks out at the end of the record, and you clearly hear it between tracks. With the old AC tables, you could place the stylus on the lead in groove with the motor OFF and it was completely quiet, it's only when that motor is on, and the platter is turning, can you hear the hum/buzz. With this AC hum/buzz problems literally all over the Internet, it's beyond belief that Pro-ject never publicly addressed the problem anywhere, and continued to sell thousands of the HUMMING AC turntables. The DC version was introduced to address this problem, but you will NEVER see Pro-ject acknowledge the DC version was introduced to address this terrible problem that they would not acknowledge. dougotte, I hope you conduct the test just like the man with the green Carbon on YouTube and confirm you have no hum, many people will want to know what you find out, I know I would. It should be noted, Pro-ject decided to charge an additional $50.00 for the DC table, at least on Amazon.:doh:
     
    Last edited: Sep 29, 2015
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  2. britt2001b

    britt2001b Active Member

    Location:
    Mississippi
    I conducted this test, still no hum (or buzz). I bought my DC in January and was oblivious to the "AC" version with the hum. I'm sure your theory is correct. This would be a marketer's nightmare. It appears with the extra $50 charge they were turning a problem into an asset. Very risky! If this was indeed the problem, Pro-Ject should have recalled all of the defective units. Apparently, this wasn't fiscally possible.
     
  3. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    You are so right! They should have at least taken care of the people that complained. All I asked for was a simple swap and was told to just return my table to the vendor. That was right at the time the DC version was just being introduced. Did the mounting and everything else stay the same with their motor?:shrug:
     
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  4. britt2001b

    britt2001b Active Member

    Location:
    Mississippi
    At the time of my purchase, I just wanted to make sure that I got the most recent model. As mentioned before, I wasn't aware of previous models hum problems. So, to answer your question, I re-checked the product info listed with the DC on Amazon (from where I purchased it). It appears that a new motor suspension was added. Here is how Amazon currently lists the product features:

    8.6" carbon tonearm
    • Increased platter size with more weight
    • Precision belt drive with synchronous motor
    • New Sorbothane motor suspension
    • Ortofon 2M Red cartridge
     
  5. dougotte

    dougotte Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    I will do so and report back ASAP. It might be a few days before I have time.
     
  6. dougotte

    dougotte Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Washington, DC
    Sorry about the delay. I tested the DC using your method, as well as with headphones. I detected no noise, just a little rumble from the vinyl, which is not audible at my normal listening levels, but I could hear it with the preamp at 5o%. I normally listen at around 25% or less; 50% would be deafening in my room.
     
  7. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    I am so glad they got this humming problem fixed, I just feel so sorry for all the people that have had to go to extraordinary measures, including literally cutting pieces out of their turntable where the motor is, to try and silence the hum. I don't know how long Pro-ject made the AC version of that turntable, but they had to have made tens of thousands, yet I know of nowhere where they addressed the humming problem with those turntables. They will discuss it on a one on one basis, but even in those conversations they never admit to anything. I would be curious if anyone on this forum knows if Pro-Ject has ever publicly addressed the humming AC version of their product line? You were one of the lucky customers who bought the DC version, they have not been out long, enjoy.
     
  8. wownflutter

    wownflutter Forum Resident

    Location:
    Kokomo Indiana
    Would the new dc motor be a drop in replacement on the older models?
    That was be great if it was.
    Has anyone checked in to this?
    It sure sounds easier than chopping your table in half.
     
  9. TeacFan

    TeacFan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arcadia, Ca.
    Agreed, but where would you get the DC power? Does not seem quite that simple. I got my unit back when Best Buy was discontinuing them. Got a speed box that seemed to eliminate the hum at 33 1/3 speed. I have always thought it was some sort of AC frequency thing that is feeding back and not the running of the motor that was causing the noise. Live with it, or replace it as the manufacturer has washed their hands.
     
  10. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    I think in the new DC version the motor is mounted differently, it's a bit heavier, and the mounting uses a Sorbothane motor suspension, I don't think it's an exact fit.
    Here is what I don't understand, would love for someone to explain this one. I understand the motor is still an AC motor and the wall wart takes the AC and converts to DC and then "back to AC for the motor", what in the heck is going on with that???:tsk:
     
  11. zhoucky

    zhoucky New Member

    Location:
    Bulgaria
    Hi, I can confirm after discussion with a local dealer - this is the old well known AC 16v motor and just the PSU is DC. It has nothing to do with the hum issue I think, just the new EU regulations for more effective power supplies. Still, obviously the 16 v version vibrate less than the 230v and combined with improved suspensison (available as a kit from henleydesigns.co.uk) fix the issue. The motor is directly replaceable, it rotates at the same speed as the 230v version however you have to change the capacitor from 220n to 8,2 uF and buy new psu.
     
  12. jokker2525

    jokker2525 New Member

    Location:
    Sevilla España
    Un saludo para todos, tengo un debut carbon DC modelo Europeo 220 V 50 HZ y por si puede servir de ayuda para alguien diré mis conclusiones sobre el origen de los zumbidos en este giradiscos.
    1º.- el cable RCA que trae de fabrica es malisimo, los conectores quedan flojos y producen zumbidos, tirarlo a la basura y montar uno nuevo en el que aprieten bien los conectores , yo tengo V.D.H. el THE TAMES y va muy bien, ya has eliminado un zumbido.
    2º.- los tornillos del motor no hay que quitarlos,(en este modelo no son de trasporte y ademas en el manual no dice en ninguna parte que se quiten), si los quitas se elimina el zumbido con el giradiscos en reposo o con el motor en marcha, pero cuando se posa la aguja en el disco sale un zumbido enorme. no quitar los tornillos.
    3º.- si colocas la capsula, con el protector de la aguja sobre el plato metálico escucharas un zumbido leve,producido al acoplarse la capsula con el plato de chapa como se soluciona, cambiando el plato metálico por el Acryl it, haciendo estas tres cosas ya has eliminado las fuentes de zumbidos y si cambias la aguja 2M Red por la 2M Blue ya veras como suena de maravilla.
    Ojo el peso de la capsula también es muy importante si le das la correcta 1.8 gramos suena bien, si le pones 1.88 gramos da mas graves y enmascara los agudos y medios, si le das menos peso pierdes los grabes hay que probar o dejarlo en 1.8 g que es lo que recomienda Ortofon. Espero que estas recomendaciones os sirvan, yo también me volví
    loco buscando el origen de los zumbidos.Un abrazo desde España.
     
  13. Hissinsyd

    Hissinsyd New Member

    Had my dc tried everything changing cables helped but hum still there tried grounding to my mains no different
    SOLVED IT 100% no noise at all by swapping 15 dc power PAC with pure 13.5v from my DAB radio it's the cheap power mabee faulty PAC that came with the turntable that's the cause not even a buzz or hum at amp turned up to 100%
    My project debut carbon sounds great after 20 months of experimentation
     
  14. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tennessee
    This was my experience as well. The 15VDC wall power supply is crap, and generates noise that can be heard through the system, even if it not connected, but just near the turntable when it's off. Replacing that with clean power removed the hum, except when running the table at 45rpm, which I suspect is a mechanical hum.
     
  15. TeacFan

    TeacFan Forum Resident

    Location:
    Arcadia, Ca.
    So what is a "clean power 13.5v" supply adapter and what do I look for?
     
  16. Dinstun

    Dinstun Forum Resident

    Location:
    Tennessee
    Sorry, but I can't help you there, as I had someone build a custom homemade 15 VDC power source. My understanding is that you want a linear, regulated power supply, as opposed to a switching power supply found in those cheap wall bricks.

    I looked for something suitable in the audio world, but don't remember finding anything, at least in a reasonable price range. Maybe an audio expert can chime in?
     
  17. Classicrock

    Classicrock Forum Resident

    Location:
    South West, UK.
    Project do linear power supplies that can be used with some TT models and have various voltage outlets. Almost the cost of a Project Carbon however.
     
  18. Northa40

    Northa40 New Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I know I am behind the times on this thread but, in short the answer is NO. The only people not hearing this hum and buzz are the deaf and those that haven't turned theirs on yet. Seriously, in 40 years of buying audio equipment and building kits such as Hafler DH200 and DH101 I have never being so unhappy with a product. There are some serious design flaws in terms of shielding, grounding and power supply design. I don't know how this has won awards. I did all the usual things, added extra ground wires tried 4 different cables with no real improvement. Some of the cables I tried were worse than the factory supplied cables and only 1 had a slight improvement. If I held the tone arm pivot between two fingers, touched the head shell ground wire with the other and at the same time placed my baby finger in the platter spindle, I could almost, not great, get the noise to a tolerable level. While Playing Manhiem Steamroller Freshaire 3 in the quietest passages the hum and noise is there. In 2017 this should not be happening. So buyer beware the dreaded Debut Carbon noise lives on.
     
  19. Litejazz53

    Litejazz53 Enjoying Sparkling Crystal Clear Digital

    You know, it's really unbelievable this problem can go on and on and on and on and no one (the manufacturer) does a darn thing about it. This has been going on for years, and the factory trouble shooting people know all about it and they give you a laundry list to "try" hoping it might help some, but they are quick to say, just return it, as they know it's an ongoing problems for many years, and no one is addressing it. I kept mine about 4 hours, tried a few things, then packed it up and sent it back.
     
  20. Northa40

    Northa40 New Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I am taking mine back on Monday, 1 week, would have been sooner, but work got in the way.
     
  21. ChuckyBuck

    ChuckyBuck Active Member

    Location:
    Albuquerque, NM
    I was able to substantially reduce my hum by running a second ground to earth and replacing the platter with acrylic. I didn't notice an improvement on the second until after doing the first. I like the way the turntable sounds (with my 2M Bronze) and wouldn't mind upgrading to another ProJect some day but the grounding problems give me pause. I suspect that having strong bass probably helps by washing out the hum. Super trebley speakers probably make it worse.
     
  22. Northa40

    Northa40 New Member

    Location:
    Canada
    I have also returned my DC Carbon that I replaced
    I have returned my Debut Carbon and got the Essential II. This table is a down grade but is slightly quieter, I have narrowed the problem to the power supply. With the turntable power switched off the hum is still there, if I unplug the 15v power supply, the noise goes away. This indicates to me that the power supply is causing the majority of the noise. To try and confirm this I unplugged the power supply from the turntable and brought the plug close to the tone arm and the cartridge and the hum gets louder. I that took a power supply from a Laptop computer, plugged it in and in the same fashion, brought the plug close to the cartridge and tone are, and, NO NOISE!! My next step is to purchase a 15v laptop power supply, solder on the proper size connector and see if this eliminates the noise. I will post my findings once I have completed the test.
     
  23. Northa40

    Northa40 New Member

    Location:
    Canada
     
  24. Northa40

    Northa40 New Member

    Location:
    Canada
    This is the second in the series. It shows how bad wall wart power supplies are.
     
  25. Kristofa

    Kristofa Forum Resident

    Location:
    Eugene, Oregon
    Can you elaborate? Is this just running another ground cable to a different location or two ground wires to the same ground? I have an Xpression III that started developing noise in the groove recently but chalked it up to a drying out bearing. I am interested in this tweak.
     

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