Dual 1219 - Tone arm sticks, unsure of cause or remedy

When I use auto-cycling to start a record on my Dual 1219, it will sometimes play okay for a few seconds or even as long as 30 seconds, and then the stylus will skip back and keep playing the same 2 seconds / one revolution of the record. skip skip skip. At first I thought that experimenting with the stylus force and anti-skating might help, but that makes little difference.

If I lift the cueing lever just enough to ease the weight of the tone arm without actually lifting the stylus off the record, and then set it back down, the skipping will often stop, and the record will play through. Same if I do this before the stylus leaves the run-in, before the music starts - it won't skip.

This skipping problem appeared at about the same time that the auto start (the movement of the tone arm from the arm-rest to the first song of the record) - you can hear the mechanism working and the arm will lift from the rest and set back down on the rest, but it sometimes does not move over to the record.

I've had a technician look at it and he could find nothing wrong. (same as when you bring the car to the shop and it runs great)

Any Dual-o-philes have any suggestions?

Thanks - Steve

 

Hey Steve. You should join the Vinyl Engine forum...lots of helpful advice and you can download users manual and service manual for free. I'm working on a Dual 1249 at this moment. Just switched out the motor and installed the well known "steuerpimple"...tonearm cycles properly know and speed is correct. I was still having similar problem regarding tonearm sticking. I discovered my tonearm was a bit loose and there were some adjustments I made beneath the tonearm....learned everything @ Vinyl Engine. Let me know if your still having problems and if you download service manual I can go into more detail about my adjustments....don't know how to explain without using part #'s. Good luck!!

 

I had the EXACT same experience with a 1249 about a year ago, very educational. Audiokarma is another site full of helpful people. There are some true Dual experts willing to help.

 

The technician really doesn’t know what he’s looking at.

There are three issues that could have arisen. The cueing mechanism has partly failed. After all these years, the damping in the cue mechanism has probably begun to dry out, which can lead the arm lift/lower to bind the post in some spots. It’s a function of age. The solution is to clean and relubricate the mechnism.

The lubricant on all the axles, pivots and linkages that make up the start and return mechanism is probably starting to dry out. To sort that out, all the parts have to be thoroughly cleaned and then relubricated. It’s a function of age.

If you recently changed cartridges or if the cartridge you’re using requires a tracking force of 1.8 grams or less, the age and looseness of the tonearm bearings may demand that anti-skate be set to zero. It’s a function of age.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I did download and look at the manuals, and am willing to turn the machine over and look at the mechanical assemblies; but it looks pretty intimidating!

Also thanks! This technician professed a knowledge of Duals. I asked him to do a thorough cleaning and refresh the dampening substance (is it oil?) in the cueing assembly. I didn't have my issue until recently, a year after this servicing - I don't think the servicing caused the problem either.

Totally willing to try the tone arm related adjustments... Where under the tone arm are the adjustments you're referring to? Has anyone posted a how-to in a forum on Vinyl Engine, and if so, point me the URL? Or, am happy to take any further advice or instructions via this thread here

Thank you both

 

Download the service manual from VinylEngine.com. I suggest takng some time to familiarize yourself with the design and operation of the mechanical assemblies. Then decide if you really want to tackle the job yourself.

 

I discovered that part #221 on the centering base (#228) was rubbing. There is a small philips head screw on the outer side of the centering base that allows you to slide part #221 vertically...part #221 guides/centers part #240 but shouldn't touch it...the adjustment is very very minor and is not easy to get correct...but once I centered part #240 my tonearm stopped binding. Checked horizontal and vertical movement...with tonearm balanced to zero, it would return to rest with minimal anti skate added. Good luck


Remember...I'm working on a 1249...so may be different...you should really search and ask over at vinyl engine...I found a few great posts with photos that helped with my adjustments.

 

Hi - You described Part #228 as the centering base, but the schematic in the service manual identifies it as a hex nut. Can you please verify which item you meant? I see that part #221 is a curved protective plate, and I 'get' how something could be binding against it. To verify then, you're saying that #228 (Hex nut) and/or #240 (washer) could be binding against #221?

I'm just going by the diagrams in the manual at the moment. Just wanting to make sure that I'm correctly understanding which parts might be the culprit(s) before removing the unit from the base, turning it over, and looking for real. Also, I'll look in Vinyl Engine...

Thanks again

 

I was only trying to explain what caused the binding on my 1249...sorry for any confusion...I'm sure the part #'s are most likely different...I was referring to my Dual 1249 in my explanation above...when I have a chance I'll take a look at the 1219 manual.

 

Ah! I "selectively forgot" that you were referring to your 1249. Sorry - of course the part labeling references would be different!

 

I took a look at the 1219 manual. Although the parts look a bit different I believe part #219 for your Dual (called the guide piece) is the part I adjusted due to rubbing...screw #220 according to your diagram. Does this piece guide part #181 on your table with space above and below #181?

 

Bayen's advice is spot on. I had the same issue with my 1229.

 

I'll look later today when my work-day is over, and report back... Thanks Bayen and Dadbar!

 

Send it to Fixmydual, they know what they're doing.

 

Well... The technician told that it is beyond repair. So I bought a used Pro-ject Debut III for cheap and left the Dual in hope that on 2nd inspection something can be done. Today I was told that one of the gimbals on the tone arm is shot, and come pick it up.

On the way to the shop, I started thinking about parting out the Dual. But when I got there and took the poor thing out to the car, I decided that this is all rubbish, that the Dual is just too precious and good to give up on.

Also, the Pro-Ject is a Re-ject, with noticeable (to my ears) flutter. Punches way below the weight and gravitas of the Dual. Not a POS but sorry, I'm not going to try and convince myself that it's better than it is. Guy in the store said 'Well, whatever...' Which gave me even more resolve about the Dual.

So I will contact FixmyDual and the guy in Brooklyn (Seth?)... To be continued. Anyone here have any further suggestions? Anyone know a competent Dual person in the Pacific Northwest? Worth a road trip...

 

I don't know who will see this, but @bayen really saved me on this one, thank you so much. I was experiencing skipping at the same point in multiple albums and I was really struggling to find the cause, and this is the only article that I could find that mentioned this part and how it could impact the tonearm. Now the partial restore of my new Dual 1219 is complete!

 

Thanks for resurrecting this thread. Since I posted here last year, I found and bought a Dual 1229 that is now my daily driver. The 1219 is in the closet. The Ortofon 2M Bronze that was on the 1219 is now on the 1229, and the lesser Ortofon that came with the 1229 is on the 1219.

Also since I last posted to this thread, we moved south about 30 miles, now near Tacoma. One of the local used record stores happens also to sell used and new turntables and has an old-school mechanical technician who looked at it, jimmied around underneath for a couple of minutes, and it was repaired. How much? Oh, just buy a few records. Deal! Turntable Treasures is the store. Highly recommended, cramped, records piled high, just what you want in an old record store...

And it was the part mentioned above in post #11