ELP Fanfare Box - Studio Albums Plus Unreleased Live Audio Out 9/29/17

Thanks for that. It looks OK to me, but I don't know if the dropouts would register visually or not. I would probably rather hear an audio clip, not that I'm asking you to create one. Just saying, that's all.

Next time I pull it out for a listen, I'll see if I can come up with a better description of what I'm hearing. But to be honest, I'm not sure this matters much to me, because I'm not going to buy the box, even if the dropouts have been fixed. So for me personally, this is all just academic.

That's what it says on the standalone CD also. I have a hard time believing they would have fixed something so quickly which I'm sure to them is a non-issue.

 

I learn a lot on this forum.
I appreciate academic discussions and the quest to maintain high standards in music production.
More than sophomoric jokes, polls, rants, flame wars and the rest.
But that's just me.

 

I am really loving this box. Having all the 5.1 mixes on one Blu-Ray. Wow!

 

Can some kind soul link me to earlier posts referring to this defect on previous releases?

Is this a sincere inquiry or just trolling?
Is it "all just academic" ?
Is this a deal-breaker for purchasing a $175 box set?

I kid, I kid. No disrespect.

Seriously, I've listened through the entire 9:44 several times today on speakers and IEMs.
I can discern no defect I would describe as a dropout.

My offer to post waveforms stands, if anyone can provide a precise time frame.
Or alternatively, a description of what is going on in the music at the point of the perceived problem.

Prior to 8:00 - Emerson soloing over a vamp on a E pedal tone
8:01 - Bass note drops to C, the opening fanfare brassy synth theme is re-stated over thundering kettle drums

8:30-8:35 - Long, sustained notes
8:35-8:48 - Descending figure of unison synth, bass, and drum hits
Four long notes then up a step in pitch to two short notes.
Baa-daa-daa-daa da-da [Bb-A-G-F G-G] This repeats with a variation.
8:50 - The “galloping” rhythm resumes
9:40 Fadeout

I certainly enjoyed myself this morning firing up an old keyboard with decent brass synth tones and noodling along with one finger.

 

@ ~dave~~wave~:

Me, trolling?

I never said the dropout WASN'T fixed on the box version which you have. I simply said that I find it hard to believe that it was, especially since both the standalone and box version of this disc SEEM to be the same master. But the box MIGHT have been quietly fixed. That, indeed, was the question.

From 8:30-8:35 on my standalone copy there are dropouts. And they're significant - although as I said earlier, I'm not sure how or if they're visible in a waveform. I mean, after all, one channel doesn't exactly drop to silence.


Now, as to my use of the word "academic", I'll explain more in detail:

I already have copies of all the ELP albums (the ones I like anyway) with masterings which I find perfectly enjoyable. Dropouts over a five second stretch of one track notwithstanding. For me therefore, it's not even worth considering buying the set even if it can be confirmed that this version was corrected. But I'm still CURIOUS to know if it was. That's "academic". If BMG made such a correction available as another standalone issue, THAT'S something I'd consider buying.

I hope that helps you understand more clearly why I said what I did, since it seems that you think I posted simply to stir up $h!t. And since you graciously charted the musical development of the track, I figured this was the least I could do in return.

 

OK, I KNEW I've seen mention of the dropouts before, because I read them after I had ordered my copy (but before I received it). But try as I might, I couldn't find the posts in time for my previously posted outburst.

But I've finally found it:

Emerson Lake & Palmer to be reissued on BMG



This is just so we're clear that this is a legitimate issue, not one which I've made up or have been imagining.

 

little tidbit for those interested. had a second during a otherwise bust weekend to take a peek at the singles included.

lucky man seems to be the full album version not the single edit (I don't think I have ever actually heard the single edit has it been released anywhere I figure it just trims the ending?)

fanfare for the common man is the single edit.

 

Whoa, sorry, amigo.
I intended to use enough emoticons in my post to make it clear I was only joshing.

The mild kidding was not directed at you, who have provided clarity to the discussion, but to the member I quoted at the top, who has remained silent after bringing up the question.

 

You may not be asking, but it's no trouble.
A sincere peace offering.

Dropbox - Fanfare Box 2017 clip.wav

All the best,
Dave

 

Let the record show I withdraw and repudiate the waveform I mistakenly pasted into post #199 above.

I had the horizontal scale set to “samples” rather than “time,” so it does not show the correct area of the possible audio artifact.

Here are some screen shots of the correct area under discussion.
The time scale in minutes and seconds is clearly displayed.

 

We seem to have a divergent perspective here.

I'm not an audio engineer, but I worked in the engineering field.
In my experience, a "significant dropout" should be easy to visualize on a waveform.

It may be a matter of definitions.
You hear something that doesn't sound right.
You label it a dropout.

As an engineer, I have a strict definition of dropout as "loss of signal."
If what you're hearing doesn't meet that, then it won't be as easy to visualize.
What if the unpleasant noise in question is an errant drumstick mis-hit, for example?

I simulated what I call a dropout to demonstrate it in the examples below.

 

Back on topic, this just in regarding the blu-ray authoring, thanks to the good folks at quadrophonic quad forum:

ELP Fanfare Box Set (With 5.1 Surround Mixes on Blu-Ray) Coming Soon! - Page 5


Thank you for the mistake you discovered on the ELP Box set Blu-Ray, which has been brought to my attention – please accept our sincere apologies. I’m the product manager at BMG who lovingly put this set together.

We worked so very hard on making this box set, for several months, and I’m extremely disappointed and upset we didn’t pick upon this error, despite high standards of quality control and repeated proof checks by several people here. One problem was, the mistake was made on the copy, which became the CD wallet artwork we referred to for checking against the Blu-ray test disc. We should have known ‘Abaddon’s Bolero’ was in the wrong place though, I was horrified to learn we‘d got this wrong.

We are looking into getting the disc re-authored and remanufactured. It will probably take several weeks but I’ll keep you posted and make sure you receive one when we do.

Hope you enjoy the set, and the incredible music this great band produced, despite this issue.

Kind regards

Jon

 

Well, you know, you had me confused. At first, I thought you were kidding. But then when you brought up the use of my previously used word "academic", I became convinced you were poking at my claim about the dropouts. I noticed the emoticons, of course, but misread them as being an overreaching attempt to cover up a bit of snark.

So, apologies for the tone of my response. It wasn't the first time there's been a misunderstanding on the internet, and I'm confident it won't be the last.

But I doubt that @giantleech was trolling, either. Naturally, I can't speak for him, but maybe he knew about the dropouts' existence but doesn't own the standalone BMG CD and therefore couldn't provide the dropout timing?

What I really meant was that *I* might not be able to recognize a dropout (or more specifically, these particular ones) on a waveform. That's because I don't know if the audio signal drop is significant enough for it to be visually obvious to an untrained eye like mine. I imagine it could look pretty subtle. Maybe not if half the db level dropped, but I'm not sure if this one's as egregious as that, although it's very obvious to me when listening.

Thanks! I can't compare at the moment but will try to get to it later.

 

OK, it's settled. On the box version of "Fanfare", the dropouts do not appear in that section. That means it's a secret remaster, because both the box and standalone versions are marked as being a 2017 master. Very surprising.

Thanks again, @ ~dave~~wave~ !

 

Dropouts aside (although it is interesting - and somewhat worrisome - reading), has anyone in Canada received the box yet? I'm hoping I come home to it sometime this week...

 

We just took the worry out of the dropout issue, thanks to no.nine.
Now that we resolved one anxiety, we can move forward to work through more.

Some of the Europe orders are just starting to show up, the PledgeMusic deal certainly wasn't for expedited premium shipping, despite the price.
If I were you, I wouldn't lose any sleep over it yet. (Easy for me to say.)

It's Columbus Day in the States today, so that shuts down our mail.
[525 years ago for that so-called hero, should be changed to Native American Day]
Let us know when yours shows up so we can all stop worrying with you.

All the best to our sane and reasonable neighbors to the North.

 

it took mine 4 days to travel from san Francisco to Sacramento so I can't imagine how long it would take to cross a border!

 

NOPE !, you just need to register on the page...
WOW, The LIVE tracks the they let you access...WONDERFUL, Kick-Ass, & CLEAN

 

I was really surprised to find the drop-outs on Works fixed. I noticed the running time for disc 2 is 46.01 compared to 45.58 for the standalone edition, so it is a different master. I wonder why this was never announced?

 

We can only guess why, but here's MY guess:

There doesn't seem to have been much uproar over this dropout issue so I'd guess BMG didn't see the need to address it publicly. Plus, the fixed dropouts, by themselves, aren't likely to be a deal sealer for anyone to buy the box set, so that's another reason not to bother pointing it out. What I'm actually wondering is why they corrected the problem at all? (Not that they SHOULDN'T have, just that I'm surprised they did.)

I hope this corrected master eventually makes its way to a standalone release. And that we find out about it. I'd email them again to ask, but even if they actually reply this time, it would probably just be another form letter -- "We're sorry to hear of your concerns with this release. We feel we did an excellent job with it and hope you will enjoy it along with our other fine BMG products".

 

I wonder if the hi res download of Works has the corrected version?

 

I got a response to a shipping inquiry I sent exactly two weeks ago.

One could infer: Pledge Music does respond, just not promptly.
But you will be thanked at least twice for your patience.

Sep 28, 15:22 EDT
The tracking number I got on Monday shows that the Post Office hasn't received the package, only that a shipping label was created.
Doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling about getting it delivered tomorrow.
Are you hearing this from other customers?
Thanks- Dave

Oct 12, 10:49 EDT
Hi there
Thank you for your patience, I can see from the tracking that this has since been delivered safely
Thank you for your patience.
Rachel
PledgeMusic

 

One thought I had about the drop-put issue, was that to me it sounded non-digital, i.e. it maybe exists on the tapes they used. During mastering this was fixed, but somehow the wrong files were used when the standalone CD, vinyl and download were produced. For the box, the right files were used, possibly those involved not even realising that they were the corrected files, hence the issue not being mentioned.

 

Could be. It definitely sounded like a tape issue, so your hypothesis makes sense.

 

Sounds like a boilerplate response to me. All of that "decades-old tape restoration" doesn't appear to be done recently, does it?

Art looks nice though. I'll give them that.

I'm passing on this to see what comes down the road in another 6 months or so.