I just received the Santuary remaster of "Brain Salad Surgery". I noticed that Lake's voice on "Still... You Turn Me On" has almost no reverb, compared to the version on the "Atlantic Years" set where there is much ambience and reverb. Is the one with the reverb the "single version" (although I have read that there was actually no single of that song)? Anybody knows the story behind this? Thanks for your comments. All the best Thomas
The new Sanctuary BSS remaster has been remixed from start to finish, complete with new instrumental and vocal tracks (Benny the Bouncer in particular) Take note that it is the ONLY ELP album to be remixed - the rest sound as per the Rhino remasters.
Well guys. How's the sound quality? Is it breath taking say as much as S.H. recording or is it just a little better than the Rhino release? Could it still be better? I really would like to know as it is my favourite ELP album
It has a lot less glaze on the vocals and appears to be a little duller. It's possible it's a stereo mixdown of the DVD-A. There are lots of differences in the mixes and I haven't seriously listened yet. I'm keeping three versions (Victory card version, Rhino 3D version and the Sanctuary remaster.) The only ELP album that sounds any good (audio-wise I mean) to me is Pictures at an Exhibition.
Thanks, John & Dave I have seen some MFSL remasters of some of the ELP albums, but not "Brain Salad Surgery", I'm afraid. I never heard them. John, is the Rhino remaster better than the Sanctuary remix (soundwise) or just more historically correct? Somewhere I have read that the mid '90 Castle remasters are exactly the same as the new Sanctuary ones (minus the bonus tracks), but I cannot verify this. Soundwise I think the Sanctuary CDs are very good indeed. Can they be better? I don't know. Re: Pictures at an exhibition: There is a remake from the 1993 box as a bonus track on the disc. "The Sage" is my favourite track. For years, I didn't know and couldn't imagine that it was a live track, it sounded so well. The comparison between the old 70's live and the '93 studio version shocked me. I wonder what Greg Lake has done to his voice in the meantime. Too many cigarettes or whatever, maybe.
MFSL did Tarkus on vinyl and CD, Trilogy ditto, and Pictures on vinyl only. I think you need both BSS versions
The Sanctuary sounds duller than the Rhino, with more bottom end. Some extraneous noises have been removed (eg the ?? tape fault at the start of Toccata)
Are the Sanctuary remasters the latest ones from teh UK with some bonus tracks? I have seen them in the stores, and was curious about them. As I recall, they have new liner notes, but on examination, each different title had the same blurb in it. I don't know for sure, but my feeling is that these remasters are the same as the 90s remasters that were put out on the Victory and Castle labels in the UK. The only thing I have to base this on is that I seem to recall Brain Salad Surgery in this new series having the same remastering credits as the older versions. I would have thought if they were new new newly remastered, they would have stated it more clearly..... I am not familiar with the Rhino remasters - is it indeed the case that some of the mixes differ from the UK versions? I have Tarkus and Trilogy on MFSL gold - they are better than the UK remasters, mainly in the bottom end - there is more real bass there. I remember reading a US hifi mag way back in the late 70s, where they interviewedf someone from Mofi (might have been Stan Ricker). He might have been referring to their vinyl half-speed version of "Pictures At An Exhibition", and said that they had wanted to do "Brain Salad Surgery", but there was too much distortion on the tapes. What I would really like to know is: How do the Japanese 20-bit K2 remasters that came out a few years ago sound in comparison to the current ELP CDs? Of course, they are impossible to get now, but it would be interesting to know whether the Japanese were able to improve on these albums on CD.
I have BSS and Works with the Japanese K2 20 bit remastering. The packaging is cool, but I'm not sure if they sound any better than the Rhino releases. As I mentioned here a few weeks ago I don't think the Rhino's are any different than the Victory Music releases from about '92. I bought the ELP boxed set that came out the same year, and now if you find that boxed set in the stores or on cdnow, it says WEA/Rhino. Do you think they remastered the boxed set when it changed labels? Not likely. I have the MFSL's of Tarkus and Trilogy and I think they're the best I've heard that material sound on CD. Both of these CD's say they were licensed when the ELP catalog was on Victory Music in the early 90's. I also bought the new Sanctuary BSS a few months ago based on reviews on the UK amazon.com site. It definately sounds more like a remix than a remaster to me. Lets see, I have about 4 versions of this album on CD and the DVD-Audio (my first).
So Drew - have you been able to listen to BSS on DVD-Audio? If so, what's the word - is it the ultimate at this point in time?
I feel stressed. I wish I could be the ultimate voice in this but unfortunately... I heard it on a friends DVD-Video player in Dolby 5.1 only, and also on my PC with a DVD-ROM and a 4 channel sound card and some mediocre amplification and speakers. I'm not sure that I like listening to it (or any other music) in Dolby 5.1. I don't have a dedicated DVD-Audio player and I don't know anyone who does so I haven't heard the stereo track. Bottom line is, I think this is my favorite ELP album and I don't think I've yet heard a version that I would say is audiophile quality. I always wondered why MFSL selected Tarkus and Trilogy for the Gold treatment. I'm still sitting on the fence of the SACD/DVD-Audio debate until there's more product in the pipeline. My wallet is still recovering from the (2 channel) single ended triode investment. Maybe I can commit myself within 6 months. I heard Peter Gabriel's catalog is going to be remastered on these formats this year and that might pull me off the fence. Or some DCC/S&P releases on these formats of course
Thanks Drew - pity that they didn't just put it out on 2-channel SACD and be done with it. If what the Mofi guy said is true, perhaps BSS is never going to sound as good as some of their other recordings. I've never thought the sound quality interfered with my enjoyment of that album, so i guess that's a bonus.
Dave, I have both MFSL CDs and did an AB (when they were first released) with the then current Victory CDs. The latter were sold ASAP. Better bass and, surprisingly, less hiss with the MFSLs. The Rhino remastering is the same as the Victory remastering, which is identical to the old and new Castle/Sanctuary remasters, except 1. Bonus tracks 2. BSS has been remixed. 3. Extra liner notes. 4. Some minor revamping of the cover presentation - to my mind inferior to the Rhino/Vistory. The Victory S/T first album is the best booklet.
John, did you mean that the Rhino version of BSS was remixed, or the Castele/Sanctuary remaster is a remix? I wasn't sure, because as I recall, the Rhino had a bonus track or two, but different from the bonus tracks on the Sanctuary reissue. I have the Victory remaster from quite a few years ago, as issued in the facsimile card cover - quite nifty. The sound was never what I would call top notch. I think it was mastered by Joseph Palmaccio at Polygram, if memory serves. If the new Sanctuary disc is a remix, I will definitely give it a listen. It's surprising that a super-duper remaster of ELPs first album hasn't come out on CD after all this time.
Apparently the ELP catalogue is being re-released by Sanctuary with card sleeves (ALA Black Sabbath) - maybe the fourth version is coming up?
To clarify, The Victory (remastered by Joe Palmaccio) sounds similar to the Rhino 3D version (remastered by Bill Inglot), although the latter has an ELP interview tacked on. I was lucky enough to get the card version of the former. The Sanctuary is the one that is a REMIX (which is very good) but has crappy, mastered from a flexidisc - complete with rumble and mistracking - bonus tracks added. I suspect that the Castle versions were the same as the Victory, but I never heard those.
Thanks John - I had always thought the Rhino was exactly the same as the Victory, with the addition of the interview track. The remix of BSS sounds worthy of a listen. I had kind of hoped that the Japanese 20-bit K2 versions would leave everything else in the dust, because I've heard some wonderful K2 remasters from Victor Co. of Japan. If is Drew says they are not that different, then I won't have to worry about tracking them down, which could be impossible. It does raise the question - if the Japanese market had the limited edition K2 remasters in little sleeves, what do they get now that the limited editions are gone? Do they get the same remaster in a jewel case? Of course, a K2 remaster from a lesser quality tape source may not be what we're looking for - I wonder what source material they used...
