Embarking on a Thorens TD 165 Restoration

Hi all
Just picked this TT up on a local used for sale web site and am tickled pink. Here is a YouTube clip showing the condition of the unit with more to follow. The dust cover was cracked and therefore a write-off. I did source and ordered a ant-skate armiture shown broken in the video and have ordered a replacement belt via ebay (not sure if it is a knock-off or the Thorens replacement at this stage) as per: http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Turntable-Be...327345?hash=item3f4210a771:g:K-AAAOSwd4tT~IZU

Does anyone sell a kit wit instructions on how to properly lube and tweak an older TT to get it back up to snuff. Don't want to ruin anything. I did see the Vinyl Nirvana site but give that I live clear across the continent, the horible shape the Cdn dollar is against the US dollar and time it would take to restore through him, it would simply be cost prohibitive (although tempting). Guess I will have to DIY the hell out of this thing. Here is how I received it:

 

Should have said, any advice on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated like where to get the proper types of lube oil as well as where and how to best apply if required. What type of cleaning protocols and solvents or otherwise to use if any are recommended....

Here is the inside look at the turntable:

 

I would suggest that you head down to Soundhounds. They sell gear but also have a very experienced repair/service department. They are at 1532 Pandora Avenue. It's an old timey type of Hifi shop. They can restore it for you, or....I'm not sure of other options. Everyone there has been in the business for 30-40 years.

 

Tons of info out there. Try audio karma. Easy to restore and tweak for a few bucks -- I'm talking less than $40. Your biggest expense will be a new mat based on that photo. The beauty of thorens is the have quality parts. A little oil and some cleaning materials and your good to go. If you decide to dampen the plinth don't waste money on dynamat. Lowes sells an knock off for $8 vs $100. There is nothing to restoring these tables. Number one rule: don't muck with the tone arm. You don't lube a tonearm however tempting that may seem. And don't panic about paying through the nose for some "special" thorens oil. Just use a light weight motor oil for a couple bucks. There's a cottage industry about taking advantage of nervous new turntable owners. There's a 95 percent chance you don't need to do a damn thing to the table except wipe down the bearing and clean out the well with a change or two of oil And relube. New belt and set it up and let it spin. I've bought thorens that look beat as hell and under the chassis they're good as gold. The motors are sealed and if they work, there's nothing to touch except maybe a drop of oil on the spindle. The manual shows you where. Download a free copy. Despite the attention some slobber over them these are very simple machines at heart.

 

Thanks for the great replies so far.
Crap - looks like maybe I am in for a bit of a headache with the motor or drive wheel. See this link to get a feel for the noise issue. Any ideas on this one?

The first part unfortunately did not pick up on the noise as much as I would have hoped...

 

you want vinylengine.com Register for free and get the 165's service manual and lots of info on fixing it up or upgrading.

 

I think what your hearing is the vibration of the unbalanced motor. It's a balance issue. I think your motor is fine. When you run it with your finger on the spindle it seems strong with good torque. That's a good sign. Notice how it gets quiet when you apply the force of your finger? Now you're putting the load on it that it's meant to have. When you're running it with the belt on in the video, I also notice you're also not running it with the full platter, only the inner part of the platter. That upper platter is heavy as hell, it's crucial to the overall balance of the table. Without it, the turntable is not resting properly on it's springs. It's not floating and pieces of the chassis are touching that shouldn't be, which is why you're hearing that motor vibration. I'm certain what you're hearing is it being out of balance. These things are engineered to perfection and when you run the motor without the belt or without pulling the weight of the platter and without the full platter on to settle the table on it's springs -- you're not running it as designed. When you have everything in place -- do you hear any noise? If not, I wouldn't worry about that noise of it being run without the belt and without the platter -- because it's not in balance. My TD160 made noise until everything was in place, then it was quiet.

 

My TD166 made a bit of noise when running (platter on). Thought it might be a lube issue but I changed the belt and no noise. What chadbang says is true.

 

Good to hear. I can audibly hear the motor spinning with the platter on. Will record and see what you folks think. There is a motor close by in Vancouver (looks like a pull from a similar TT touted to fit the TD 165) - only trouble is the guy wants $100 Cdn plus $25 Cdn shipping (vancouver is just across the puddle from us). Listed here:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/THORENS-Moto...115180?hash=item2a601ca02c:g:exgAAOSwLnlWpDU-

Motor axel looks a bit thicker than mine but it seems to be the right one...
Has anyone ever just run the motor on theirs without load? Does it do the same death wobble as mine?
I am torn about getting it as the next motor up is from Switzerland at over double the price plus almost $60 shipping and probab;ly a month to get here. What to do? (rhetorical) If I miss this opportunity I would be hooped if it is a motor issue...

I think I may try to pull the motor and clean it up better and try to do a better job of oiling. Maybe that will tame it. Should the motor be super silent and not audible? Back soon with a recording...

 

Motor noise sound check - sorry for sideways vid but more interested in sound - does it sound normal or excessively noisy? Note that the belt really feels old and crappy. There were lots of rubber flakes around the motor which I tried to clean up as best I can. New belt is on order (suspect a knock off but will see when it arrives if it is Thorens brand...

 

Nice. Keep us updated. I just got a 166 mkii this weekend that I plan to fix up and upgrade and time and funds allow. Sounds pretty great in its stock for too.

 

Did you get the new belt yet? I wouldn't drop anymore more money until you get that belt and gently lube the motor. It' still sounds like something rubbing to me. Can you tell us what maintenance you have done so far? I don't know how sensitive your mic is, but you really shouldn't be able to hear much with the table running, sorry to say.

 

As I feared - total newb to tweaking so not much so far. Will wait on the belt but it seems that the spindle and shaft have a lot of play - not sure if a bearing is shot. There is a real derth of show and tell vids and imagery telling how to best do some of the cleaning procedures. Vinyl Nirvana has some good clips but only enough to make someone dangerous - don't blame him for wanting to keep trade secrets though as he does run a business. Cost prohibitve to us Canucks though so will muddle through with satisfaction of doing it myself or wrecking it myself ;-)
Been fearfull of doing too much and getting past the point of no return....

 

No belt yet or anti-skate hanger but coming soon from various parts of the continent (I hope). I did receive my digital scale and a new Shure M44-7 cart in the mail but alas that cart screws don't fit the built it plate nuts in the Thorens headshell - Of course they don't because that would be too easy
Before you all say "what was he thinking getting a so-called DJ cart for an instrument like this!' I assure you there is a logical explanation. I had in fact bought a quasi-DJ Table mere days before I stumbled on the Thorens on our used for sale site as per here:



I did not want to go with just the stock AT95E cart (an ok cart in its own right) so I ordered a M44-7 to see what all this scratching fuss is about - You se I am a DJ (mainly VJ) as you can see here:
http://navydiving.wix.com/coppercollarvj#!video-reel/c1afv

Then I thought to myself - why not use it in this for a while. The M44-7 is more or less bullet proof until things are setup properly, it has a spherical tip meaning low wear with very high output (I have a very good adjustable phono pre on my SA-9500II amp). It is also noted to be far less susceptable to surface noise on old records whic are plentiful and cheap around here at far less than the $30 a record for new LPs. Fret not though as I will eventaully shift to elliptical high quality after I am done my trial and error phase and get comfortable with the rig.

 

Am working on a TD 165 as well. For the experienced folks a quick question. Can I use 3 in 1 oil for this turntable? Thanks.

 

Just ripped open my new 166 mkii for the first time. There was some really shoddy soldering. Cold solder joints everywhere. There is a seperate ground wire and a ground connected to the RCAs. Took out the ground connected to the RCA's. Replaced the RCA wires with some mogami cable and neutrik jacks.

Its obvious the guy who worked on this last new a big about what he was doing but the work was pretty crappy. He had the rca's coming out of the plinth with blue painters tape on them. Can be seen in the photo. He also put a female plug for the power chord and glued it and the glue has come undone. The base of the plinth is something he cut himself by hand and he glued carpet to it.

Next up, washing the suspension. The springs are a bit rusty and the foam inside is all black. The rewire the tonearm to get rid of the old cables (also with cold solder joints). Hopefully sometime down the line make a new plinth

 

Here was my minor success today (see vid below) - for Parisisburning I just used lightweight motor oil but I'm sure there are some hard core Thorens users out there completely put off by that. I don'treally buy into all this bunk about using esoteric oils but that is just me (despite my being a Hydrocarbon Engineering Technologist per my post secondary schooling). Bear in mind I am a nube to all this and just fumbling around with the rest of the hoards so please please don't go by what I say

 

Used 3 in 1 oil and mine is running like a top and perfectly quiet. I need a set of hinges for the cover, they are missing and the previous owner used screws which work. I need to read the manual on setting the correct weight for the needle. Video was interesting and helpful. Thanks.

 

Received Shure M97XE cartridge today and hooked it up. Night and day difference to the Stanton 4DQ I have to say. Taken with my BB phone so don't expect from the vid clip for sound:

 

Black Maple Plinth under construction

 

Now, isn't that fun!

 

You building the plinth yourself?

 

Neighbour

 

Sweet , I bought an oil kit from a guy named Joel, he worked for Thorens in Europe back in the day and has the proper oil ( one for motor and one for bearing) it was super cheap and came with belt. Been a while,but you can search him at Vinyl Engine. Joel Boudreau I think is his name.
Live long and prosper brother.

 

New custom plinth I had made up - Black Walnut: