Expensive Speakers

I'm cynical but I do think the design is more marketing than function. If you're going to spend an obnoxious amount of money on speakers you want them to look shocking. It's as much for show as go.

 

I that sales price or asking price?

 

I've listened a lot to the $50,000 Vandersteen Model 7's, and honestly, if any speaker is worth that kind of money, this one is. That said, I look forward to someday owning a pair for $25K or so, or perhaps the Model 5A Carbon when it's $22,500 price is down to $10,000 on Audiogon. They'll get there....

It's all relative.

 

Asking as far as I know. I only look at that level, I rarely go over over a 3K budget for any one piece of equipment. That has everything to do with ability and not desire. If I could settle down on buying records and gear for a couple years I could see spending more. I saw a pair of used Audio Note Speakers today on Audiogon for 15K that would fit the bill quite nicely.

Another thing about the design and cost of these high end speakers is that they are not entirely designed for a North American market. It seem the passion and appreciation for this kind of stuff is pretty hot over in Asia.

 

All of theses speakers are extremely ugly, except maybe the red Focals. I hope they all sound better than they look...

 

i wouldn't mind a pair of wilson act ones (in blue carbon fiber). some seriously engineered speakers.

A.C.T One Evolution Floor Standing Loudspeaker | Wilson Benesch »

 

Both Focal and Wilson fit into the category of established brands.

I wonder how rich Asians developed a taste for this stuff.

Part of the problem is the difficulty in discerning where the extra value is. How much is a better finish worth? How much is a small incremental improvement in sound quality worth? We constantly see reviews saying this item sounds as good as others costing many times more.

 

I heard the Carbons at the Munich High End show, demo'd by Richard in a vinyl-based system, his wife choosing the music. They're worth the retail asking price, and more; I can only imagine what the Model 7 sounds like.

Certainly if you're going to pay a lot of money you should have something that pays some attention to design and what looks good to you, but what I almost always find in those ultra-expensive speakers that impress me is significantly reduced distortion and coloration--significantly, especially compared to the around $3000 and under price range. Speakers are by far the most distorted and colored part of the audio chain, and until you've heard a well-designed, expensive speaker in a good setup you won't really understand why audiophiles who can afford them, buy them. (Of course there will always be rich poseurs who buy something simply because it's expensive, but they don't count.)

John K.

 

Well, seems like more than a few of the usual stereotypes and presumptions have been offered here.

Many of these companies are essentially small engineering firms producing specialty products. All they really need are a handful of technical and design experts along with a precision manufacturing department. The basic design goals come from the one or two people who run the company, and the eventual look of a speaker is a matter of form following function, not marketing.

Plenty of people in the world with the financial means to purchase these products. Reasons why anyone in particular would are varied. Sure, like anything else, some just like to buy pricey stuff. On the other hand, there are a lot of well heeled folks who are into audio and are quite knowledgable about putting together good sounding systems.

If I could, I wouldn't hesitate spending that kind of money on a pair of speakers that I thought were worth the price. Others might disagree, have different priorities, or may just be skeptical. Doesn't matter. I've had a chance to hear lots of different speakers across broad range of prices, including some of the heavy duty models. They can be very impressive, though not always. But if anybody thinks there isn't much more to offer beyond the usual $1000-3000 speaker, they really have no idea of what they're talking about.

 

I don't think anyone is buying this stuff without being deeply into audio. The idea that anyone is buying anything simply because it is expensive is nonsence. Perhaps jewelry or high end fashion is an exception but this is generally done to impress other people. I don't think massive speakers get that done, chicks don't dig it. You really have to be looking for this stuff to find it, that alone requires a commitment to research.

 

I will offer my two cents here. It may be because most of us are music lovers, rather than audiophiles per se. We call ourselves audiophiles just to differentiate ourselves from the regular Joe Schmoe with a $200 "mini-system" from Wal-Mart. To a regular music lover, even with an audiophile streak in him, a $500 - $3,000 speaker pair is sufficient most of the time, because they're just used for playing and enjoying music, and those speakers do an adequate, or even a great job. To chase the Holy Grail isn't necessary to a regular listener, IMHO.

A true bonafide audiophile, however, is less of a music lover, but is actually more interested in getting the "best sound", the higher specs, and the pleasure derived from comparing various components/setups. These are the people who get turntables with 3 tonearms (I've often wondered what they're for), and may have more than one of those decks side by side, people who own whole collections of cartridges and keep swapping them around, compulsive tube rollers, and whatnot.

If our hobby is a sickness, audiophiles are just farther gone than we are. For all the craziness - I never want to be cured, nor do I want to get terminal, either...

 

Or it's a bit like chasing the dragon. When you make a sweet upgrade and hear something magical in your favorite music you have never heard before, you can get kind of high on that feeling. Kind of like gambling, it's a rush of endorphins. After a while that upgrade becomes the new normal and it's not as thrilling as it once was.

If you jump from an iPhone and earbuds to that Walmart system, you can catch that buzz and then again with a good amp and bookshelf speakers. And on and on.

At some point you get to diminishing returns. It takes much more money to make much smaller progress is sound quality. That's generally when you settle down and live with what you have. If you can't get to that point, that might be the sickness.

Or it's just intellectual curiosity of technology and the love of music. I'm pretty sure I'm on both sides of that fence.

 

I bought my Khorns, brand new in the boxes from a guys son in California, 1995 models in 2013.
They had been out of the box once at the border for inspection.
He told me his dad was an attorney in Mexico city and bought them for a home theater in his house, decided instead to take them to his home in California and there they sat in a garage for all those years next to a Porsche, also a 1995 model with 140 miles on it.
He told me the story of his dad and how he worked very hard and bought toys to play with when he had period of time to get away, that's why the Porsche only had 140 miles on it.
I called Klipsch and they verified the shipping and the year of purchase.
All the doctors I have ever known seem to make a lot of money, I can only imagine the financial side of being in practice is enormous,I would think being the wife or kids would be were the real perks are.
That poor guy is like a plumber, always on call and still got to get up and go to work in the morning.
If he drops 50,000.00 on a pair of speakers , good for him, at least he can listen to them while the brood is out spending his money, then he can quietly pass out from exhaustion.
I've never wanted to be rich, just comfortable, never been jealous of others that have more than me, I am thankful for what I have, especially a roof over my head and food on the table.
We worry to much about what others have and loose site of our blessings, The Doctor or Lawyer, CEO good for them , I would rather have the simple life and be a worker bee myself.
Much more time for me and my family, at night all I have to do is decide which stereo to listen too will it be vinyl or cd , so many decisions, I need a beer!
I bought all my stereo's with insurance money, a one shot deal, It's a hobby that I can do inside anytime day or night and at any age.
When you buy a fancy car, you are always worrying about someone scratching it or hitting the thing and next year it's just another used car, a boat is cool and then before long you have covered the same lake a thousand times with it and it starts to fall apart and we all know how much boat repairs are.
Just the way I see it these days.

 

Yeah-and they want to save as much as they can-sheltered and non-sheltered to retire quickly.( maybe pick up the toys later).

 

I hear what you're saying, and do think there's a bit of truth to it for some, but generally I think you're dishing out an absurd stereotype. So where is the point that you stop being a music lover and become an audiophile? Do you wake up and say, oh my system is now broken the $10,000 mark, so I must not love music anymore. Or is at $5k, $20k, $50k? What if you're simply a wealthy music lover, should you have a $1000 setup just to show that you're not an audiophile even though you could afford more?

Bottom line is you can be a gear head, audiophile, or whatever else you want to call it, and still be a music lover. One does not negate the other. Some great guitarists only need one or two guitars, it's simply a tool to create, while others collect and play dozens. One is not inherintly more of a musician than the other, they simply have different interests but with much the same goal.

 

Confederate bikes- I was seriously interested in one years ago-- the original one, that looked like a rat bike with carbon fiber, was apparently a good bike after it got sorted. There was a crew that modified them --they weren't crazy expensive. I did check out the current production model at that time, it was pricey.
Expensive gear, or anything else--I'm pretty agnostic. Big $ doesn't necessary = good, but at the same time, it doesn't mean bad or recklessly spent either. I don't begrudge luxe good spenders any more than they should look down on budgeteers. There's a "right place" for everybody, depending on budget, taste, etc. I am as fascinated by the history of things as I am about the things themselves- what makes for an enduring design or product? What happens to markets once those who aspire to own products from a particular era die or sell-off?
Brass era cars, and some of the pre-war stuff that is not blue chip, is probably on a downward trend, simply because the people who coveted those things in their youth are long gone. Perhaps the same will happen with muscle cars from the '60s at some point--with some exceptions (a factory COPO Camaro or a real Yenko), they aren't alluring to a generation that didn't grow up with them.
There are a few hi-fi products that have proved enduring over the years, but with the exception of things like WE, much of it isn't crazy money--
I was chasing Brough motorcycles for a while before those went through the roof-- very hard even a decade ago to find one that wasn't a bitsa. And of course that got rebooted too, at an obscene price. Me, I'd rather have the original, but at a certain point, I let that one go-- the cost of entry is just too high now.
I enjoyed the benefit of used high end back in the '80s- when Dave Wasserman's Stereo Exchange in NYC was truly a clearing house for used high end gear- the "flavor of the month- gotta have the latest "crowd would trade in their good gear for the "newest model." I managed to score some very nice pieces at good prices when folks traded in things like ARC SP-10 mk ii preamps for SP-11s (I preferred the SP-10). Ditto, my Crosby Quads, which were touted by Harry Pearson, but weren't really too common. Got them used for a great price and enjoyed the hell out of them.
Most high end audio gear (and a lot of other luxe "stuff") depreciates, sometimes heavily. That can work in your favor.

 

I wonder how much better a typical, brickwalled DR 7 new release sounds through $15K speakers vs. $3K speakers.

 

Exactly right. In fact I'd say the notion that "A true bonafide audiophile, however, is less of a music lover..." is flat out ludicrous.

It's like saying that a cook who is interested in molecular gastronomy and farm-to-table ingredients, etc, is less of a food lover than a guy who just likes to go to the diner and order pancakes with phony maple syrup. There's no reason why a person can't love eating food AND love cooking, and love knowledge about ingredients and about cooking techniques and even cooking science. In fact, my guess would be that the latter is probably more of a food lover than someone who doesn't have that curiosity.

I know there's that stereotype out there about audiophiles listening to music they don't like for the sake of the gear, and maybe there are some people like that on this forum, I don't know. But I do know every single audiophile I've ever met in "real life" was a music lover and remains a music lover. They just also are interested in audio. Most people can hold multiple ideas in their heads and interests in their lives simultaneously.

 

I've heard it said many times that we (people in general) should value experiences more than possessions but my memory isn't good enough to live that way. 3-4 years after a vacation I will merely remember that I went to a place but nothing specific about it all. My speakers cost less than my last vacation (12 years ago) but they bring me continual joy while the memory of that vacation has almost completely faded away.

 

Yes and no. There's undoubtedly a Robb Report kind of target market out there for just the best and biggest of most expensive of everything, and there are buyers who buy on the basis of that (although I suspect the target market for the Robb Report itself is more of an aspirational reader).

It's a small number, because, hell, we're talking about super expensive stuff and there just aren't that many multi-millionaires and billionaires, but for that buyer, maybe they will just outfit their new $20 million summer house in the Hamptons with some kind of giant audio rig of expensive speakers because someone said they're they best and they certainly are the most expensive.

Now, that buyer probably is hiring a consultant or installer, and maybe more likely to be buying decor focused in-walls or a real theater style home theater. But those buyers absolutely exist and they're a big part of the small market for luxury goods of all sorts. Still, I suspect people speakers like the Wilson WAMMs or something like a Rockport turntable are probably seriously involved in audio who also happen to be very wealthy.

 

Owning great audio system IS experience. It just outside of many people's interest, or maybe they are not aware of some other pleasures of life.

 

There's a bar in London that has a ~£500,000 hi-fi as its sound system, the speakers are by Living Voice. Every time I go there you invariably hear the odd mastering disaster because the DJs don't really know what to play through the kit. Sounds awful.

 

Well, owning it may not be an experience, but listening to it is.

 

I have certainly skipped a vacation so I could afford audio equipment. I like a nice experience but after a week all you have are memories, I'll trade that for a substantial upgrade to the system.

 

Obviously. But typically to listen it, one need to own it.