Fisher tube receivers in 2015, some advice and help, please!

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the forums and looking for some advice on purchasing a Fisher tube receiver. I've read through a few of the existing Fisher threads here already- it seems that the prices on Ebay have gone up substantially in the past couple of years. I am mainly interested in a Fisher 400/500/800 that has already been restored, but I'm not opposed to an earlier X series model without the tuner.

I'd like to use the receiver as my main system which is admittedly not the best (late 70s Hitachi turntable with Grado cartridge, early 80s H/K receiver and KEF LS50 speakers). I'm thinking that a tube receiver would be a major upgrade from my current setup!

The best sounding, longest lasting, most reliable? Help!

 

X series integrateds cost as much or more, and far, far fewer of them were manufactured too. They were less common. The Fisher 500C was built in very huge quantities through it's production lifespan. The most common tube receiver ever made by far. And make sure you have efficient speakers, as in over 90db efficient/1 watt/1 meter. Your KEF speakers are too inefficient to be driven with Fisher tubes, in tubes you're looking at McIntosh MC 275 territory for enough output.

 

I would advise you don't necessarily look at it as a "major" upgrade, but rather simply a different flavor. Fisher tube receivers(and tube integrated's, and tube separates) can sound wonderful, assuming the right speakers, the right room size, and they meet the listener's preferences for sound. And of course, assuming that they have had the necessary updates required of tube gear 50+ years old, by people that know what they're doing. There's a ton of information here, and other sites, that I would suggest that you look at before committing.

That all said, I own a Fisher 400 receiver, and a X-101-C integrated, and love them both. Don't ever plan on selling them. I use them with Klipsch Cornwalls, and KLH Model Six and 23 speakers. I have a relatively small listening space, and don't tend to listen to music super loud(at least most of the time). They've both been updated and I don't think I'll need to do anything with them for a long time. If you don't have any need to listen to local FM radio, I'd advise going for an integrated. Less stuff in the body.

I'm sure others will chime in, but hopefully that will get you started. Good luck on your hunt.

 

Username "action pact" here on the board uses a Fisher and LS50's. Hopefully he'll be in shortly to give his opinion.

 

What would you like to know?

 

@neilevans64 - I see that you're in Connecticut, and I'm just outside Boston...
Feel free to come over and have a listen the next time you're in the area.

I am fortunate that a fellow on AudioKarma, who goes by the handle 'audiodon,' lives in the next town. Don is an expert on restoring/upgrading Fisher tubes and worked some of his magic on my 400. He modded the phono stage for more accurate RIAA, modded the output stage to run cooler, and replaced all of the caps with Auricaps. He's working on developing some other upgrades, and once he's satisfied with them, I will have him implement them on my 400.

That is one component that will be staying with me for good.

 

Thank you everyone for the replies so far.
I am curious to hear action pact's opinion on the KEF/Fisher combo? Can you get decent listening levels? My system is in a small room and I don't listen very loudly (at least I think I don't!!)

 

My room is 8" x 12". In that small room, I can get plenty of volume from the LS50's with the volume set at around 11-1 o'clock. The Fisher has nice, beefy transformers, so the KEF's have plenty of oomph. In a larger space, it won't be able to rattle the walls, but in a small-medium space, it's a great pairing, with excellent resolution, transparency, dynamics, imaging depth, etc etc. etc.

And I was sincere about my invitation!

 

He has the coolest stuff!

 

I was gonna say you'll find more than a few people running vintage tubes with monitors about the efficiency of the ls 50s. Personally I feel they're ideally paired with something around 92db or above. Like good vintage Tannoy, Altec or JBL gear. Klipsch Heritage stuff is nice too (I'm running mine over a pair of Heresy as a place holder for some Tannoy Monitor Golds).

If you can get comfortable doing a little soldering, you can grab a minty Fisher and do the basics yourself for about 150.00. If not I'm afraid you'll be looking at paying around a grand for a nice example now.

That being said they sound fantastic. I've got a restored 500c with a few of the popular audiokarma mods and have put it up against a few modern tube integrateds and she came out on top. Its also definitely worth shopping for some NOS tube deals for everything but the output tubes. For those grab a quad of the new Tung Sol 7591s from a good source like Jim Mcshane.

If you haven't yet head on over to Audiokarma and check out the Fisher Forum. Tons of great people and very good information.

 

Any of the Fishers running 7591(A) (or it's cousins) will give you very nice sound, with almost any speaker. They also tend to be the Fishers with less problematic designs (for the purposes of restoration/service/information)

Fisher made many models

Although "high efficiency" would go "louder" obviously, I have had excellent results with my Fishers paired with less efficient makes and models of loudspeakers in a moderate sized room (decent sized living room in a 1,500 to 1,800 square foot house)

Prince with George Clinton at believable levels playing through a pair of JBL L96s is one example

Very satisfying with plenty of head room

Some will argue the tube rectified versus the solid state rectified models and on and on

You cannot go wrong with any of them; don't get hung up on threads, the debates rage on as vociferously as do those on tube versus sand, digital versus analog or even magic wires

You'll become paralyzed from over analysis

Just pick one of the larger stand alone models over one of the many console intended amps that are showing up more often now and you will be "OK"

If you purchase one that has allegedly been "restored" already, make certain that the steps have been taken to insure trouble free service from today's current production power tubes, which are a bit more idiosyncratic as far as their ability to cope with the design demands originally implemented on these models (7591A)

Analogman

 

You're too kind, thank you!

Yes, something with efficiency over 90dB is certainly best, but in a small room, a Fisher is fine with less efficient speakers.

 

thank you everyone for your in depth responses!! I will probably keep the LS50's for now, but may end up switching to a set of vintage speakers at some point in the near future. In terms of where to buy restored receivers from, what does everyone recommend? I know eBay is an option, but I'd rather buy from a real person who can tell me what was restored, etc.
Also @action pact if the snow lets up, I may take you up on your offer!! That rig looks very impressive and I'm sure it sounds great!

 

That's rough. Honestly I'd look for a nice clean example of a 500c or x202 and then go to someone like NOS Valves or Terry Dewickt and get it restored. That way you know exactly what your getting. Or shop around on AK or Audio Asylum and maybe see if a regular is looking to give there's up. Stranger things have happened. You could also try Urbane Antique Radio in Connecticut.

 

It's worth pointing out that vintage speakers generally can't compete with today's advanced designs (unlike, say, vintage tube amps vs. modern). That said, a pair of vintage speakers like the restored 1967 AR4x's that I have in my basement system do have their own enjoyable qualities.

I think I saw a post from you on AudioKarma... I suggest contacting 'audiodon' in Arlington, MA. He might have something for you.

Yeah, c'mon over!

 

Um just noticed your in Connecticut. Call Urbane Antique Radio. They're in Windsor

 

Definitely go with Audiodon first.

 

Yeah, the SH'er who sold me my 400 had Mike at Urban Antique Radio in Windsor service it. Audiodon evaluated it shortly after I bought it and confirmed that it had received a good, basic servicing... but Don took it to the next level, and then some.

Don's work is fantastic, and he's a great guy too, but he also has day job and the usual family obligations that compete with his available bench time.

 

@russk I would have loved to use Urban Radio but Mike only had a Sherwood tube receiver, no Fishers.
@action pact I did post over at AK and contacted Audiodon, unfortunately his turnaround time is next fall (I can't hold out that long!)

 

I'd say there are some exceptions to the new better than vintage speaker argument. Most notably JBL with the 001 or 030 loadout, Tannoy Monitor Gold and Altec Model 19. Properly restored and in good condition they can smoke most modern speakers. Even Altec 604s and Klipsch Cornwalls have their place.

 

Those Sherwoods ain't too shabby sounding either
If you can find a nice example I bet you'd be just as happy
The Sherwood S-8000 was one of the finest tube receivers ever built
5000 series were pretty damn good too

http://www.romeroy4u.com/Pictures.html

I've owned both as well as some U.S.A. built Sherwood solid state stuff from the very end
Sublime
They built some superb tube integrateds as well

Analogman

 

So buy a complete one in need of restoration, on eBay or whatever, and bring it to Mike for servicing...

 

I am happy to report that I've acquired a 500-B serviced by one of the Fisher pros over at AK. I'll post a pic of my setup tomorrow, but needless to say, I am very pleased with the sound - I am especially surprised with how rich the bass sounds. Any recommendations for tube replacements based on the specs below? Here are the specs from the gentleman who serviced it:

"All electrolytic capacitors have been replaced - each of the cans atop the chassis were 'restuffed'. Incresased capacitance in the power supply especially the voltage doubler. New rectifier diodes for the B+, new bias bridge, safety caps installed, resistors checked and some replaced. An inrush current limiter (CL-80) was installed to protect the switch and lower the household current a couple of volts. Individual, adjustable bias to each 7591 output tube with test points and trimmers in the rear of the receiver. Output tubes are 3 Fisher branded Westinghouse, and one Daystrom Westinghouse. All tested good on a calibrated TV-7. The 7591s still have quite a bit of life left but they've seen their best days and the new owner might want to change them out for the Tung Sol re-issues or NOS. EH7591s won't fit in the case but I have a new set to swap for the Westinghouse if desired, and you can run it w/o the case and watch the tubes glow. Output coupling caps are Soviet K40Y-9 paper-in-oil; screen stabilizer and bias resitstors added. The MPX section has been recapped and new coupling caps in the phono section. There are Telefunken tubes for the tonal section, quiet sounding EH tubes in phono, old stock US tubes in all other areas - mostly Fisher branded. All controls have been cleaned and lubed. "

PS: @action pact the KEF LS50s sound pretty good to me with the Fisher. I did have to jack up the rear phono levels to the max, but after I did that, I can get decent volume at about 6 or 7 on the master control.

 

Very nice. Who did the work? Im presently using a quad of NOS EI 12ax7 for tone and phono in my 500c. They sound great and can be had for around 100 bucks. As much as I hate to mention my favorite tubes out loud, I really love the RCA Black Plates for tone and a pair of Mullards for phono. Of course a lot of it will depend on what you are running.

As far as output tubes go I'm running a matched quad of Westinghouse but alas I think they're getting a little long in the tooth and as soon as they go I'll be grabbing a new quad of those Tung Sol tubes from Jim Mcshane. Old 7591s just aren't worth it for the few extra watts they'll push out IMO.

 

@russk bhamham did the restoration. Here is a very dumb question but one that I need to ask - I recognize the 4 7591 output tubes in my 500B, but is there a chart that says what all the other individual tubes are for? how can I locate the phono tubes, for example? And there seem to be more tubes than there are input options, or am I just not counting correctly? Also, how do you know when tubes are on their last legs?