Frank Sinatra "A Swingin' Affair" Bob Norberg master clips vs. my "Master"

Below are links to WAV file clips of the Bob Norberg master (from the 1998 CD) of every song from Sinatra's A Swingin' Affair! album, and a clip that I "mastered" from the Larry Walsh master (from the 1991 CD).

The Bob Norberg mastered version is taken from the early 60's tampered dub, and was then subjected to noise reduction, "widening" of the image, wonky Eq, and God knows what other processing. The Larry Walsh master was taken from the correct, original tapes mixed live to mono as the sessions were happening. To my ear it has little to no Eq. It was solid-state sounding, and transferred on a stereo deck. You can hear that the image is just a little "off", but I left this as is - I thought it sounded worse by either folding this down or picking a channel.

I did very judicious Eq to the Walsh files on my laptop with the SuperFreq parametric Eq in Peak (I have a Mac). The largest "move" I made on the entire album was +0.35. All I tried to do was bring the stuff to life more/compensate for the solid-state sounding transfer/etc. There was no need or desire to revise the beautiful old Capitol mono sound. I also adjusted the levels up - Larry's disc is fairly low, and most of the files received a 3.8 db boost, though a few songs got a bit more ("You'd Be So Nice to Come Home to got the most boost : +5db), just so they flowed well from one to the next when I listen to the whole album. The peak in a song is not necessarily represented on these clips...

I tried to match the levels of the Norberg clips to mine. Many times I noticed that I had to have them peak just slightly lower than my tweaked files, so they had a similar apparant volume. You can adjust yourself to match if you feel I'm "off" on this.

I have to shake my head when Bob's talked about making old recordings sound like they were recorded "yesterday" (a dubious goal, IMO). If he meant making the stuff sound like s**t, then yes they sound like they were recorded yesterday, but otherwise this disc generally sounds OLD, and not in a good way. He makes these recordings sound like relics, in comparison to they way they should sound. Oddly enough, for someone so hell bent on removing the last traces of noise, Bob's master of "I've Got It Bad and That Ain't Good" actually has added scratchy noises. Unbeleiveable that they'd release something like this...

When you listen to the Walsh clips I tweaked, remember this recording is 50 years old! That old Capitol sound is just so fantastic, and sounds so vital and fresh and gorgeous and ALIVE. I just love the sound of those old Capitol recordings so much. John Kraus and John Palladino deserve so much more credit than they get...

BTW - Don't mistake my naming of the clips I tweaked with my name as arrogance - just needed to differentiate them...

Enjoy!


Night and Day NORBERG clip

Night and Day WALSH/MELUCCI clip


I Wish I Were In Love Again NORBERG clip

I Wish I Were In Love Again WALSH/MELUCCI clip


I Got Plenty 'O Nuttin' NORBERG clip

I Got Plenty 'O Nuttin' WALSH/MELUCCI clip


I Guess I'll Have To Change My Plan NORBERG clip

I Guess I'll Have To Change My Plan WALSH/MELUCCI clip


Nice Work If You Can Get It NORBERG clip

Nice Work If You Can Get It WALSH/MELUCCI clip


Stars Fell On Alabama NORBERG clip

Stars Fell On Alabama WALSH/MELUCCI clip


No One Ever Tells You NORBERG clip

No One Ever Tells You WALSH/MELUCCI clip


I Won't Dance NORBERG clip

I Won't Dance WALSH/MELUCCI clip


(the rest of the files will follow in another post...)

 

The Lonesome Road NORBERG clip

The Lonesome Road WALSH/MELUCCI clip


At Long Last Love NORBERG clip

At Long Last Love WALSH/MELUCCI


You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To NORBERG clip

You'd Be So Nice To Come Home To WALSH/MELUCCI clip


I Got It Bad and That Ain't Good NORBERG clip

I Got It Bad and That Ain't Good WALSH/MELUCCI clip


From This Moment On NORBERG clip

From This Moment On WALSH/MELUCCI clip


If I Had You NORBERG clip

If I Had You WALSH/MELUCCI clip


Oh! Look At Me Now NORBERG clip

Oh! Look At Me Now WALSH/MELUCCI clip

 

I just listened to the "Night and Day" sample. Frankie sounds like he's singing live in the Walsh clip, and through a transistor radio in the Norberg one.

One mastering isn't more compressed than the other; one simply sounds more digitally-processed and wonky.

Oh, why did he even bother?

 

Sad, no?

 

Martin, since I could only hear one at a time and there could be no 'back-and-forthing' to do an intense A/B comparison, I have to admit it took me a little while to catch on to any specific difference, but the vocal is one big difference. When listening to the Norberg job I just waited for it to end to get to what I was sure to be a big change with Walsh's. Though nothing popped out immediately, when I did hear the Walsh (and your) remaster a strong visual image of Sinatra singing into the microphone came to mind. That, for me, says a lot.

 

I had purchased the Norberg some years back and later was very fortunate to stumble upon the Walsh mastering. To coin a phrase from the album it's like
"NIght and Day" the difference between the two. This is a classic and timeless recording one of my favorites. Sinatra was IMHO at the top of his game during this recording session. Larry Walsh did a pretty decent job with the equipemtn he was working with. It would be great Martin if you could let us hear a clip from one of your Mono LP's to really hear what the Capitol sound was like.

 

On Bob Norberg's Where Are You remaster the harp is all muffled and barely, barely audible. It's very clear and roomy sounding on Larry Walsh's.

 

Gary, I wish I could. For whatever reason, whenever I've tried to make recordings onto my computer, I can't get a signal. All I get is a blip on the screen if I pull the wire out while trying to record.

Anyway, I probably have about 10 copies of A Swingin' Affair!, 1 or 2 I haven't even played yet. The only copies I have that sound really nice are sourced from the D16 cutting on side 2. I have 2 copies with this cutting, and one sounds a bit better than the other. Never found a side 1 that can touch it. Even the D16 has some limiting of the dynamics, but it has the "magic".

Not to toot my own horn, but after I tweaked the Walsh CD, overall I prefer it to most of the LP's of this album I've heard. That D16 side 2 is pretty sounding though...

 

This is my first time hearing anything from those Norberg Sinatra CDs. Sheesh! How gave this dude a job? Even on my laptop speakers I can hear how awful they are. What's with the midrange honk? Did he really think that sounded good?

Then I played the other clip (again on my laptop) and it sounded great. Nice and bright and open. Nice!!

 

I guess the clips haven't convinced you to start buying them...

 

Oh Martin,

I only downloaded Oh Look At Me Now and wow i'm speechless. though I'm the owner of the newer Concepts box lucky me, I'm all too familiar with Norbergs follies.

I've been collecting some of the walsh's and have this title already. But still fascinating to hear them back to back...

as always, thanks for all you do in here. I dig your music samples when you post them and your top ten charts. You make great contributions in here and I wish you were working at Capitol to get this music right.

i will be forwarding to my friend who has friends in the Tower. who knows if they'll listen but its worth a shot. anyone with ears can hear the dramatic differences to your samples. WOW.

 

Compare my files to the Walsh disc itself. Let me know what you think of what I did to the files. Try to match the volume, to not compare apples and grapes.

Thanks for passing the thread on, William. It'll be interesting if they appreciate this at the Tower, or just think I don't have anything better to do...

 

The Bob Norberg clips sound puffy and electric.

 

Wow. The difference is "Night and Day". I have that Norberg cd and never listen to it. I don't have the original cd to compare, but your's sound great.

 

Darren, find yourself a nice cheap grey label copy of this on vinyl and enjoy or track down a used walsh master. This one is worth listening to.

 

I cannot add anything more than just say great Martin!! Too late for me being a pretty new (in the sense of starting to get everything) fan...

 

And how about the 1999 UK edition? Any strong differences with the Larry Walsh master? That's the only one I've got and my only regret so far is that they forgot "The Lady Is A Tramp", which was recorded for this album, then removed from the tracklist to be included in the "Pal Joey" soundtrack, then restored on a bonus track on CD editions. The UK edition forgot to feature it on the "Rare Sinatra" bonus disc.

By the way, here's the original tracklist. In my opinion, this sequencing makes it a better album.

Lonesome Road
You'd Be So Nice To Come
From This Moment On
Nice Work If You Can Get It
I Won't Dance
At Long Last Love
I Got It Bad And That Ain't Good
I'll Guess I'll Have To Change My Plans
The Lady Is A Tramp
If I Had You
I Wish I Were In Love Again
I Got Plenty O' Nuttin'
Oh! Look At Me Now
Stars Fell On Alabama
Night And Day

 

Martin, I've neglected to say "thank you" far too long for your contributions regarding the various Sinatra recordings. I was fortunate enough to find a copy of the Walsh master of A Swingin' Affair about 4 years ago, so I owe you this gratitude.

Many of my other Sinatra CDs have been a part of my collection for going on 16 years; most were culled from store cut-out bins -- my favorite of these being Close To You. I am amazed at how "right" the sound of Frank's voice is whenever I play this disc.

One thing I'd like to hear from you (although you've probably already addressed this) is what's your take on the MFSL release of Songs For Swingin' Lovers. I have the original Capitol pressing of this CD too & have often wondered if the MoFi presents Frank in a more natural light.

 

I'm sure Martin will chime in on this, but this is what I've learned from him in here....I have this mofi disc and it was mastered from the "wrong" master tape...so the only way to hear it without added eq and reverb etc is on a grey label capitol vinyl, and lemme tell you, now that I have 2 crappy versions of this, its the only way to hear this title. I've got mofi vinyl and cd and they are both "wrong master tapes used"...but I often used to listen to the mofi cd before I made a needledrop as I found it to be the best sounding of what i had....but now the original vinyl is the way for me to go. I have not heard the Walsh CD version, though I'm sure Martin has....

his voice on the grey label vinyl is incredible.

 

Martin has said that the original 1987 Larry Walsh remaster is from the correct tapes, but that he added some digital echo and bad EQ. His Close To You also has added digital echo, but it does sound pretty good to me.

 

Dammit, this thread make me check my CD, and alas, it's a Norberg one. I'm now trying to get hold of a 1991 CD issue.

Am I right in assuming that for the grey label vinyls, I need to have a mono cartridge on my turntable?

Thanks in advance.

 

UK CDs of Capitol recordings are not mastered by Walsh or Norberg at Capitol, they are mastered at EMI Abbey Road from EMI's copies of the album masters. This is why they have only the original album track listings. Sometimes the EMI UK CDs sound superior to the Capitol mastered CDs despite being dubs, due to cleaner mastering. Obviously this only applies when the EMI folks don't go to town on the processing themselves. I haven't heard any Sinatra EMI CDs.

You do not need to have a mono cartridge to play a mono LP In order to minimize record noise it is preferable to do any one of the following: a) use a mono cartridge; b) if your system has a stereo/mono switch, select mono; c) use two Y cables between the turntable and your system to "sum" the left and right lines to mono. Doing so will produce the best results but it is not necessary to do this. It will still sound fine.

 

Does this mean it's as easy as combining one Y cable (2x male, 1x female) with another y cable (1x male, 2x female) and inserting this combo into the lines from turntable to phono preamp or phono preamp to amp?

Would this get rid of the additional noise produced by using a stereo cartridge? That would be a rather inexpensive solution.

Thanks in advance.

 

Just my two cents worth, but you can reduce noise even more - again, just my opinion - if you have a way to swtich out headshells or have a dedicated mono table by wiring the L- and R+ pins together right at the cartridge, and taking your hot signal from the L+ and negative lead from the R-. I read about this ages ago on Audio Asylum and tried it, and it does work better than a Y cord, to me anyway. I'm sure it's probably not as good as a mono cartridge, but it seems to really improve the S/N ratio.