From Harbeth to Zu....anyone try?

With recently acquiring a Pilot 248b (3o W) tube amp (from 1962/62) Im considering some high efficiciency speakers to match. Currently using Harbeth 7es3, and though they are stellar with my Rogue Cronus Magnum II (100w) the Pilot needs something a little more efficient. Been looking at Zu, Omega, and Tekton. Zu has my particular interest now... under $2k suggestions. Any words of wisdom appreciated..

 

I used to be a Harbeth P3esr user, then switched over to a low powered tube, high efficiency setup. I have both Omegas (rs5 and Alnico models) and Zu Omen Dirty Weekends. Certainly it’s a lighter faster sound. You’ll lose that seductive Caramel sound of the Harbeths, but you’ll gain really nice micro dynamics and the midrange for me is just beautiful. Imaging is spectacular with my setups and even now years after I switched, I still look forward to quality listening time like you do when the system is new.

If however you have a large room, listen to complex music and you listen a high levels, this approach might not be for you. For me, the Omegas really shine with tube amps while the Zus sound good with both. The Zus are pretty particular how they are setup with those bottom ports. I have to raise them higher when I switch from solid state to tubes or the bass doesn’t sound good. For awhile, I had dismissed them as not good matches in my room with tubes until I realized that they needed to be dialed in differently than my solid state amps.

I’ve only spent a little time with some Tekton Lores, which I couldn’t get to image well. For me, the Omegas and Zus are better speakers.

Good luck with your decision.

 

It's true what they say about the Zu: you either love or hate them, personally I don't like their sound so it would be good if you could audition them. Having said that single driver speakers are a whole different experience.

 

I’ve heard the complaints about Lores not imaging well, but I certainly love the way my Pendragons image. On placement issues with the rear ports, they’re about 18”out from the wall with eight feet between them and about an inch and a half of toe-in. Any closer to the wall and the interaction with the bass is too much, but a little farther into the room does not seem to make a big difference. But as with Zus it seems to be Love ‘em or hate ‘em; so try to audition whatever you pick. That said I bought mine on faith and am very pleased. I’ve posted elsewhere all the speakers I felt delivered less than the Pens and it was pretty much everything for sale in Austin at the time...Klipsch, Paradigm, Triton, Martin Logan, Revels, and even Maggies. Never heard Harbeth or AN and soooooo want to.

 

From the auditioning I've done, Harbeth and Zu have completely different sonic characters. In your case, I would not buy the Zu without auditioning them - they're a much colder sound than what you're accustomed to.

Taste being subjective...I prefer Harbeth to Zu, even in situations that call for high efficiency speakers.

 

thanks for taking the time! i see you use quicksilver! great company (had some QS silver 70s for several years with Vandersteen, sweet combo)

So guess it’s down to Zu vs Omega- I was leaning that way anyway. One note- bright I cannot take, sensitive ears. Natural detail ok, buy hyped cant take. What did you find more even/natural sounding?

many thanks

 

Neither will provide that super smooth sound of the Harbeth and both may sound bright to you. The Omegas have more of a lighter sound as there is no mid bass hump to them that we all take for granted and for me they tend to thin out a little too much with solid state although I know many people love them with transistors. The Zus do have a heavier sound to them and they sound more like conventional speakers. They can get bright on female vocals depending on the recording though. You really should try to listen before you make a decision. As “Yanny” vs “Laurel” demonstrated so well, we all hear differently.

 

excellent info!!! thanks! ill have to find someone in Baltimore area that I can audition...

female vocals... hmm favorite female singer is PJ Harvey, if her voice is bright, that could be a prob!

 

I have a pair of Zu Omen Dirty Weekend II's. Knowing they have a reputation for being "forward" (or a little "bright"), I've decided, from the outset, to compensate for it by using warm-sounding gear. So, I custom-paired it with a Cary Audio SL-100 SS preamp, which Cary advertises as "warm sounding akin to tubes", and a tube amp with EL-34's, that also have a warm-ish sound signature. The result - the Zu's are still "forward", but not "bright". Their strongest point - human voices, vocals of any kind. Also softer kind of music, in general - great for Jazz and Classical. If you listen to rock, heavy metal, or EDM, music with more energy/drive and fewer vocals - you might consider a different design, not a single driver.

So, to summarize, you need to consider what you will pair the Zu's with, and what music you plan to play through them. Withe the right combination of both - they shine.

EDIT: For comparison, I'm using my other speakers: Wharfedale Diamond 10.7's, which I would call warm, and PSB Image T-45's, which I would characterize as "neutral". None of them are "forward" either.

To liken speakers to cartridges: Wharfedales would be closer to Shure, PSB's - to Ortofon, and Zu's - probably to AT.

 

Shure=favorite carts ever!
AT= 440mla no thanks had several always too bright, AT150 too “shiny” sounding

this Pilot setup would be for jazz, classical, acoustic mostly.

hmmm thinking over again. Wharfdale eff 90 db, Vandersteen 1ci efficicency 90dB...(and i had its bigger brother years ago and really liked the 2ce sig II). Maybe my 30w pilot amp could go with a 1ci ( there is a local baltimore dealer, prob would let me bring the Pilot by to audition)

 

Zu will be running the next Dirty Weekend sale around July 4th. At $999 shipped, 60 days in home and free returns, it's a no-brainer if you're interested in Zu. Zu is great about returns (I returned a sub to them once) and they will find another buyer if you return them.

I love my Omen DW's and play them just as much as my other Zu's. I concur with Benzion that they are forward but not bright, especially paired with a sweet toned amp. I play all kinds of music through mine however.

 

nice!!! sounds like a good opportunity to give them a try!

 

One more note... I have not heard Harbeths but I did recently score a pair of Trenner & Friedl Arts, which occasionally get compared to Harbeths. The Arts are fast, punchy, and play much, much bigger than their size. Basically what every reviewer has said about them. If I were an apartment dweller, the Arts could easily take me off the speaker merry go round. They play huge in my living room. Also they did not sound underpowered at all when driven by my 15w Leben CS300XS.

So, differences with Omen DW on my system... the Arts have better clarity, and just a touch more refinement in the treble and upper mids. The Omen DW's go deeper in the bass obviously and sound fuller. And being more efficient the Zu's play louder at a given spot on the volume knob. But I had a buddy over and set the tiny Arts on top of the Omens and he thought I was pulling his leg when the Arts were playing, he thought I was playing the Zus. Point being IMO, the Arts and the Omen DW's sounded more alike than different.

 

If the room isn't big, 30 WPC should drive the Vandie's quite nicely. I've heard them with an old British tube amp - Grant Lumley GL50, they sounded great together.

 

You’ll have to pry my Harbeths from my cold dead fingers.

 

around +400 sq ft

 

hear ya! not getting rid of the Harbeths either!

this is for a search for HE speakers that would better match an old 30W tube amp.

 

Ah, another system. Perhaps there’s a vintage speaker to match?

 

thats a consideration too ... Dynaco, Advent, JBL...

 

That's pretty big. Mine are 13 x 11 and 11 x 11. How close to the speakers is your listening position?

EDIT: My Zu's are powered by a 35 WPC PrimaLuna Four, in the 11 x 11 bedroom. If I wanted to - I could probably blow the roof off the building with that combo.

 

Look there are tons of great speakers out there - the speakers are a bit easier to get right IMO and sure they can sound wildly different but so what - It is possible to love an a horn, a single driver, an omnidirectional, a transmission line, a line array, small speakers and large speakers.

If I had the Harbeths already - I'd probably want a second speaker that sounded quite different - you have more variety in presentation that way.

As others have noted the Zu's are not for everyone but to be fair different models I have quite liked while others not so much. They are an upfront kind of sound that punch out the transient attack which is fast and nimble but don't possess the body and decay of other speakers like the Harbeths, DeVores, Audio Notes. Full range drivers have some strengths but can require more work on the front end to bring the sibilance down some. And I also think it's better not to sit too close to them. Better off mid and even far field.

The model that I was impressed with was the Definition MK IV - I could live with those quite happily. Excellent bass rendering and fast and deep. Easy to drive - quite excellent. Still a little hot in the treble for me But I suspect with better front end gear that can be tamed somewhat. I don't know the price but probably up there somewhat.

 

I couldn't agree more and is exactly why I have several in storage (Magnepan, Ohm, and Mark & Daniel). Currently I'm using Omega's entry-level Super 3i's paired with a Decware SE84UFO. The sound quality has made my jaw drop more than a few times. Like other designs single-driver speakers have limitations, but can be extraordinary within their limits. I disconnected my subs recently and while bass is a bit leaner, it's tight, fast, and still satisfies. These monitors will also remain in my collection whether I move on or not.

 

distance estimate 6- 7 ft

 

That would be fine, I think. Mine is about 9 feet with 35 watt - it can blow the roof off, if I want it to.

 

A very nice summary.
When you come from "Speaker flavor A" looking for "Flavor B, C etc. it seems like a grass is always (or not) greener kind of thing.
Whenever I hear full range driver systems demonstrated they always seem to be playing music that compliments them- very un-challenging smooth flowing instrumental pieces. They really sound great when playing within their limits but driver functional limits -e.g. distortion at the top end where a large diameter driver tries to reproduce high frequencies with a whizzer cone or phase plug- (the hot sound) are not for people who like louder rock music by artists that like to play dirty and low-fi with intentional distortion- e.g. Sonic Youth, Arcade Fire, Tame Impala etc. Intended distortion combined with unintended distortion is downright not tolerable and extremely harsh.
Same thing with HE / semi pro driver based systems- Zu, Tekton, some Klipsch etc. The limits of driver cleanliness really make lots of music intolerable if you are sensitive to it.
Basically these are special case systems that sound great / amazing with a more limited variety of music. A specialized type of application. If you don't mind some grit, go for them.
If you want more dramatic sound from your Harbeth, Audio Note, Devore, Spendor, Rogers, etc. my suggestion is to buy very powerful quality amplification. A simple set of Harbeth P3ESRs can wake up like an alarm clock with 150 to 200 quality watts / channel.
A Rogue Cronus Magnum II is rated at 100 WPC but in reality is not very conservatively rated (even though I love the amp).
A Parasound integrated driving the C7Es (for example) will sound much more dramatic.