Genesis: A Trick of the Tail and Wind and Wuthering is a great double

Same here. I'm always surprised how many adore W&W.

I love "One For The Vine" but nothing else seems to catch that amazing vibe they had on "A Trick of the Tail." Things would have been better had they penned different lyrics for "All in a Mouse's Night" and replaced "Your Own Special Way/Wot Gorilla" with the superior "Inside and Out." It still wouldn't have matched ATOTT, but it would have been better.

Yes, keep trying with Trick. IMO, it's the only post-Gabriel album that matches the brilliance of the Gabriel years.

I could concede that "Robbery, Assault and Battery" is the weakiest song on the album, but the instrumental section in the middle is breathtaking. It's hidden in a mediocre tune, but nevertheless it's absolutely amazing.

 

"Eleventh Earl of Mar," "One For The Vine," "Blood On The Rooftops," "Unquiet Slumbers...In That Quiet Earth," "Afterglow"...Man, what's not to love? I do agree, though, "Inside and Out" would have been a great album track.

 

IIRC, Hackett and Banks did not get along very well.

 

I remember reading an interview with Banks. The band resented Gabriel getting all the attention despite the fact they were all writing the music. They wanted to prove that Gabriel wasn't Genesis. TOTT and W&W are the results. I think they did pretty well!

 

I went back to that French Bataclan documentary that's included on Selling England DVD and it included some pretty awkward interview footage, where they were primarily interested in Gabriel. Pete was talking about being inspired by artists like Bowie and Alice Cooper, as the others looked on, bemused and uncomfortable. You could really see how they were bound to diverge before too long. I think it worked out for the best for all concerned anyway.

I'm checking out some of the bonus tracks again and definitely think Inside & Out would have made a strong addition to W&W. Also, It's Yourself (released as the b-side to Special Way) is another interesting outtake from that era. I particularly dig that dreamy outro that recalls Los Endos. Another nice addition to the Trick/Wind playlist.

 

I would not change a thing about either album. Perfect as they are.

 

I could probably live without "Your Own Special Way" (obvious attempt at a single) and "Wot Gorilla" (not sure what the hell they were trying to accomplish with that one...) But that's just me.

 

different strokes:

i find "trick of the tail" to be my favorite album by genesis, yet i find "wind and wuthering" to be quite overdone and barely listenable all the way through.

 

That's not only been overstated and overblown over the years (whether it actually contains a kernel of truth or not) but its also clearly NOT the reason Banks did not appear.

There are however at least three logical and probable reasons Banks didn't appear (if he was even asked):

1 - Banks had/has no interest in acting as a sessionman for ANYONE! I can't think of a single album in existence that contains his playing that isnt by Genesis (or obviously Tony solo). Even on PG's (unreleased and uncirculating) full band demos for his first solo album - the players included Phil and Mike, plus, on keyboards - Ant Phillips.

2 - Banks may have thought that his appearing on the Acolyte album along with Phil and Mike would have made it seem that Genesis was just Steve's backing band, a predicament/public assumption they had just escaped with Peter's departure. Why invite such unnecessary negative public assumption/criticism?

3 - While everyone else was busying themselves with outside projects - Acolyte, Brand X, Mike's collaboration with Ant on Geese and the Ghost, Phil's playing as session drummer with, well pretty much everyone in England who asked, Tony Banks was the only one who strongly believed in the future of Genesis without Peter. He therefore was the only one spending his offtime in summer 1975 actively writing songs for the next Genesis album. While the others came in with only unfinished bits of songs, Tony came to the Trick sessions with two complete songs, not to mention lots of his own unfinished bits which were used to turn everyone else's unfinished bits into full songs. Remember, Tony is the only member who received writing credit on every single TOTT song.

 

Like both of them ,wind even more ,I love the sound of the Drums on Ripples that is before the remastered sacd ,which now sounds different

 

Trick and Wind, both fabulous albums, much better production than Three, in fact I believe that Trick of the Tail won awards for best production the year it was released, and many people also used it as a demonstration album to show off their stereo systems. It was known for having an abundence of the cleanest sub 40 hz content available.

 

On the whole, it wasn't as good, but there were some great moments. My thoughts were that Steve Hackett should've tackled some material on Genesis Revisited II from the period after he left the band, just to see what he would've done with those songs. "Deep in the Motherlode" and "Burning Rope" would've been that much better with his contributions.

 

Yup, toss those two...Your Own Special Way is clumsy and Wot Gorilla is just a space filler.

 

Exactly right. Everything else on the album is utter brilliance but that run of songs in the middle of the album....

 

I don't really have a problem with "All In A Mouse's Night"...its whimsical approach wasn't all that uncommon than on previous albums. I love the instrumental ending where Hackett does his thing. Only wish it went on longer.

 

It wasn't so much resentment over Gabriel getting the attention as the press focused on the outlandish costumes over the music.

 

I love "It's Yourself" too. I can see where the band didn't need it anymore after expounding on a part of it to create "Los Endos" but then we've missed out on some nice bits.

What's the forum's opinion? Where would be the ideal place to re-insert this song into the tracklist via cdr? I can't seem to choose between putting it between Sides A and B (after Mad Man Moon) or inserting it before "Los Endos."

 

Yeah that's my favourite part of the song. Love how Hackett just appears from nowhere and completely 'steals' the song from Tony.

 

I don't get all the animus for All in a Mouse's Night. I actually find the whimsical approach endearing (and it's not like Genesis had never done that kind of thing before).

I also think the ending is great.

It's one of the songs I like the most on the album, to be honest. So sue me.

 

Not a fan.
Sure there's great playing and some clever, interesting composition and they are an impressive band but it's missing Peter Gabriel, and he was important. The words, the oddball sense of slight-insanity, that voice.

I dunno man- you can't just get rid of a band's front man and then expect things to be fine. Collins does a fine job as a singer but he's not special. Genesis was great because all of the members were special AND they had a strong dynamic. And then there were 4. And then there were 3.

They made plenty of good and a couple of great songs after Gabriel left (and yes I include the "pop" stuff) but no great albums, for me, because there's a big difference in my mind between hearing something and thinking "well that was rather well done" vs "oh man wtf this is WEIRD and AWESOME." Gabriel was key in taking the foundation of excellence the rest of the guys laid down and elevating it that extra level.

Wildstar's description of how Banks was the only one fully dedicated to the group and writing more after Gabriel's departure does not surprise me at all. This is what Genesis sounds like between Lamb and Invisible Touch: fractured.

 

I like "Mouse"! But otherwise, Trick and W&W are like night & day to me - I had no idea people liked W&W so much, I always thought it was quite boring!

 

I enjoy seeing all the praise Wind and Wuthering gets here. From what I've seen, it doesn't get much respect on most forums and album review sites.

 

You make some good points regarding Gabriel. I totally get the "WEIRD and AWESOME" part. But once he departed, the band had to move on. And there was nobody on the planet who could've replaced him. He was just way too unique of a singer and character. So they chose to move on as a four-piece and concentrated more on the compositions, performances and production...which are all at a very high level on Trick and Wind. Unfortunately, they lost the edginess and strangeness of the Gabriel era in the process. But there really wasn't much of an alternative.

 

Well there was an alternative- to find other projects to work on.
No I'm not saying they should have done that. My post was not attempting to criticize why they did what they did or devalue it, just to explain the point of view of someone who personally disagrees with the OP and why.
Since the guys in Genesis are all super-talented and have made music I love and seem like decent enough fellas I'm thrilled they achieved success and got to make the music they want, and it's cool that other people are into music of theirs I'm not so much.

And I'm not saying listening to Wind & Wuthering is torture or anything. I guess I've just gotten rather picky about my listening time and now that I've heard all of these records so many times, I know I'm not ever gonna reach for W&W for my Genesis fix when Foxtrot is right there.