Getting into Frank Zappa

Further to the discussion about FZ's work with classical orchestras, here's David Ocker on the subject (note: he is discussing both the recording [done at the Twickenham film studios] and the live concert [held at The Barbican]):

The True Story of the LSO - Zappa Wiki Jawaka

 

Very even-handed.

 

Hot rats available for 5 dollar download. That is a good deal. Sorry I gave up my albums years ago .

Listening to Hot Rats now . Now I am going to have to start listening to my hundreds of files of Al DiMeola And Return to forever and etc and etc . I don't have time for that.

 

Right, he details all of that in the Real Frank Zappa Book. The other big problem was that there was apparently a real union mentality in play. Work was done, not necessarily enthusiastically, as long as folks were being paid per union rules, and that was it. Zappa was pushing his finances, so that was a source of frustration for him. He couldn't afford what would have been necessary to rehearse the material better prior to recording.

 

Hot rats is a good place to start as it's pretty blues/rock based for Zappa

 

I've branched out and settled on a good period to focus on Zappa works, sometime in between Uncle Meat and going no further than Joe's Garage (into the 80's)

As I already had Hot Rats (although I still can't stand the track "Son of Mr Greens Genes"), I've picked up the following since my first post...all on re-issue vinyl, which is superb....

One Size Fits all (possibility of being my favourite and easiest to listen to)
Over-nite sensation
Apostrophe
Roxy & Elsewhere
Joe's Garage (bargain at £15)
Sheikh Yerbouti
Zoot Allures
Roxy The Move - Blu-Ray (shame about the 5.1 loss-y track on Blu-Ray, which is sloppy - also no CD with the UK/Euro version)

If they come out I'll also look forward to getting Waka Jawaka and The Grand Wazoo on vinyl - hopefully this year? And maybe the Roxy Performances box set, although this seems to be US only right now.

Thanks for all the recommendations.

 

You are repeating FZ's version of events. Read the David Ocker comments I linked to above, then read the responses from a member of the LSO who worked on the project here:

the london symphony orchestra

(scroll to the response from Tony Wilkes)

The LSO has an excellent reputation for its ability to learn new music and perform it appropriately, which is why they are so in demand for soundtrack work.

 

I read Ocker's comments. He seems to say the exact same thing re the union mentality.

Sure, but Zappa couldn't afford the rehearsal time he needed, and folks weren't about to start putting in extra time without being paid for it.

Zappa was at used to at most paying being a biweekly or monthly salary, and then being able to work folks as much as he could in those time frames, rehearsing them like crazy. He wasn't used to having to pay by the hour/quarter-hour, etc.

Zappa wasn't very fond of unions or union mentalities in general. So that was an obstacle right off the bat.

Because he was paying for everything out of his own pocket, basically, Zappa was used to trying to find ways to milk situations to get more return for his investment. That's why he routinely did two shows per day as well. Doing two shows didn't cost anything extra--the musicians' salaries were the same regardless, the cost of renting the venue was the same, etc. But he could obtain two complete sets of gate receipts.

That's not the way that the LSO was about to work, though.

 

If you like the Roxy period, You Can't Do That On Stage Anymore Vol. 2 was released as a 3LP set back in the day.

 

And he also lays a lot of blame on Zappa's unrealistic expectations and inability to get the best out of the performers (Frank Zappa mercilessly ridiculed the players of the LSO both in private and public. -- that is not good man-management!).

From the latest link I provided:

aj: what do you remember about the concert? zappa seemed to think it was under-rehearsed.

jl: no, it wasn't under rehearsed! there were 12 extra rehearsals before the concert day running from jan 7-10, with a barbican concert on the 11th january. i can't think of any other project that has had anywhere near that many rehearsals! we then had 6 sessions in twickenham after all this so it was given an extraordinary amount of time.

However, if you only accept perfection, you are doomed to be disappointed.

 

Yeah, the reason it was unrealistic was because of the clash between the union mentality and what Zappa was used to.

It was under-rehearsed per what Zappa was used to and what he expected.

 

If I were you, I'd preview Grand Wazoo and Waka Jawaka before buying. They're mostly in a similar style to Son of Mr Greens Genes, although with a bigger band.

 

This was not FZ's first experience of working with an elite orchestra. All the Western ones are governed by Musicians' Union rules. He must have known that from the outset. Moreover, all the elite orchestras have their schedules mapped out for 1-2 years in advance when you take into account home concert seasons and touring. So, even if he had the money, he could not hire an elite orchestra for months of rehearsal like he used to do with his touring bands. Finally, he was also not dealing with a bunch of young unknown musicians who saw working with Zappa as a chance of exposure, and would be prepared to work any hours asked.

If you have unrealistic expectations, it should come as no surprise that you end up disappointed, and moaning about the cost and insulting professional musicians just strikes me as the height of arrogance.

 

It was the first time he was working with an orchestra of the caliber of the LSO with the intention of commissioning their time longer-term to rehearse and then produce an album, where the entire project rested on the orchestra's performance.

The similar earlier project was the stuff that became the Orchestral Favorites album, but that was a ragtag orchestra that Zappa put together from LA session musicians. The Pauley Pavilion show was a very different situation, where Zappa knew that he wasn't going to do an album (he would have liked to, but he couldn't afford the fees required for that given the orchestra), so there wasn't the same sort of pressure on the situation, and 200 Motels was centered on the Mothers (as was most of the Pauley Pavilion show for that matter), so that it wasn't necessary for the orchestra to carry it near as much, and the material wasn't anywhere near the same level of difficulty for the orchestra.

I don't have any problem with Zappa moaning about union rules, the union mentality, the fact that some folks weren't exactly attempting to be passionate about the music they were performing, or the fact that some musicians were doing things that impaired their performances. I'd moan about all of that, too, and a portion of the gigs that I do are very union-oriented.

 

Yeah, this one's got it all.

 

Just finished spinning the recent Roxy & Elsewhere vinyl I had to import from the States, and it sounds fantastic.

Only Zappa knows why on earth he chose to put "Be-Bop Tango (Of The Old Jazzmen's Church)" on the album though and occupy a complete side, and "Inca Roads" goes begging!

 

Yes, if there is one thing that did not age well with R&E in my opinion it's that audience participation business on vinyl side 4... There is so much fantastic material from those shows he could have used instead of that, say with a proper edit right after the tango's main theme or trombone solo... I'll never understand why Zappa gave so much audio entertainment value to audience participation/dancing on the stage (...barring stoned poetry reciting of course!).

 

Dicky's such an ***hole would've been much better too.

I love Roxy but tend to turn the album off when it gets to the Be Bop Tango.

 

Me too. Yes, Dickie, though I really doubt this would have gone past any censorship at that time (in spite of Nixon's resignation by the time of the album release).

My own "must pick" to replace the audience participation bit on the record would have been Big Swifty.

 

I know I've said this on other threads that asked, 'WHY?', when it comes to Zappa, and his, shall we say, LESS that artistic choices, and I have come up with two 'reasons' for this:
1) Being someone who knew a thing about marketing, I feel as if he knew that 'teen-age' boys have an interest in things that are 'filthy', and, since it would only be by 'word-of-mouth' that they would learn of his albums, and how filthy they were, that would give him some sort of 'sales'....
2) A deliberate 'sobotage' on his records, in order to prevent the music journalism world from placing him in their 'upper crust' league of rock stars.

 

Zappa's music often had an uneasy mix of the sophisticated and the scatological. It's the only real problem I have with his work, as some of it seems designed to offend the listener as much as possible. Maybe it was Frank's litmus test to determine the loyalty of the listener.

 

I'm okay with his having left "Inca Roads" off Roxy & Elsewhere since we got the better version from One Size Fits All.

 

but they are so much different

 

Any love for Sleep Dirt? I happen to think the 2012 edition sounds fantastic! I'm debating whether to pick up the Roxy box. I've already got the original album, Roxy By Proxy, and the movie soundtrack.

 

Yes.