Goodbye Rega Brio-R, hullo Sonneteer Campion

Just a quick post that I'll follow up on, but after a few days of swapping back and forth between the Brio-R and the Campion, I can safely say that the difference is startling.
The sheer musicality of the Sonneteer is incredibly impressive. It creates distinct instrument separation, 3D placement and 'air' around voices and instruments.
It can effortlessly drive my Harbeths, and the absolutely enormous sound stage that it is capable of reproducing continues to floor me.
That this amp retails for $1,800 CAN and includes an incredibly transparent and bass/mids authoritative phono stage. For that price, I can't imagine anyone who would go for a Naim Nait XS or SuperNait if they also heard the Campion in the mix.

 

I read what their page said. Are they saying its a universal trait? Or, with the volume pot that they use? I was under the impression that once you go past the three o'clock setting the tracking is not as good. Hmmmmm... I wonder if its with their particular pot?

 

Just a design philosophy. Obviously gives you greater control over the volume.

 

I was asking about the volume pot characteristics, not how they decided to design their unit to be different. I was told by a tech that once you go past 3/4 the way up on a pot that it actually loses tracking accuracy. I sent this question to an engineer and hope to receive an answer soon.

 

Got the answer:

Hmmm. If you are speaking about film resistance pots then yes, the information about "better" sound is true in my experience. For wire wound or steeped resistor networks it is not. Since most modern pots are film resistance, for both pro and commercial sound gear, you can draw your own conclusions.​

 

So, no. (I had assumed they would use a design than didn’t punish the sound to implement their idea, and there seems to be a variety ways to do the job.)

Thanks for sharing the response.

 

Did you write and ask Haider at Sonneteer? He'd be the man to ask about it. He's excellent at responding with detailed answers. Such a great hand built amp and a great little company.

 

I have a cyber-friend who is deeply involved with audio and manufacturing. I did not contact Sonneteer.

Got a question for you. What is the price differential between the Rega Brio-R and the Campion?
Was the power cord you used for each unit the same one?

 

OK, but if you're serious, talk to the man who designed/builds the amp.

The Brio-R goes for $1,000 CAN, the Campion for $1,800 (if you can find one). The power cord used was the same.

 

The person I contacted has designs and has designed high end equipment. The man that designed and built the amp bought his potentiometer elsewhere, just like everyone else does. I was finding out about what Sonneteer was doing. Any other manufacturer could do the same thing if they chose to. Its like tires on a car. You do not have to contact Honda to find out if the low profile tires on their car will handle better in curves. You can talk to an expert who works with tires.

For that price it better sound better. It depends on what one's needs are.

 

It's about twice the price here in states and sounds better than twice as good, to my ears. I have both of them.

 

OK, just saying...

Why? I've heard plenty of $$$ gear that was bested by "cheaper" kit. More expensive doesn't always equate to better sound, IMHO.

 

+1

 

From their website:

"All Sonneteer products are assembled by hand with one person taking responsibility for each unit made. Not one single Sonneteer music playing product leaves the workshop without being listened to by one of the founders."

Classic UK hairshirt amp makers

 

All my listening is near field. So, I am not sure that I should make any comment in regards to which sounds better. The reason I joined in was because of reading about the Sonneteer's unique volume control approach. I had a vintage integrated amplifier (mosfet outputs) modified and refurbished a few months ago. I was shocked and disappointed to see I need now to turn the volume to at least 3 o'clock now for normal volume listening. The person who modified the amp first asked me what the output of my DAC is. He said he was going to adjust it to be better. I thought he screwed up, but since reading about the Sonnesteer's volume control, I now realize he was onto something. He just did not explain to me very well the reason for what he had done. He custom rebuilt the preamp section and made sure the input and output would better match, rather than a one size fits all amp. If I did not read this thread, I would have never known what he was up to. He has helped me tremendously in the past with insight into audio. This time I had been under the impression he messed up. Now I know why.

 

Apparently this is discontinued.

A pity.

 

Would love to hear it A/B with a little KT88 amp of about the same power.

 

I used to have the Prima Luna Prologue 2...I now have the Campion and far prefer it. A lot of folks like the Prima Luna amps better than I do. I'll leave it at that.

 

Diplomatic but honest. A solid state amp that can create the holographic sound of tubes but without the distortion for a comparable price is a treasure. KT88s can be somewhat flat and share some similarities with solid-state sound. My simplistic perception is that a great preamp section at this price point is the real gift.

 

Yes, it is indeed a pity.
That said, Haider at Sonneteer informed me they had no plans to continue Campion production unless they received an order large enough to justify another build.
He also told me that an Alabaster could be built bespoke with the same phono stage used in the Campion, and that it had been done previously, much to the delight of the people who had them commissioned. So, for those looking for a British solid state, one-box solution to play LPs, the bespoke Alabaster w/phono could be just the ticket. I believe lead-time from order confirmation/payment is about 28 days.

 

The Sonneteer with Harbeths for near-field listening is a combo you have to hear to believe at this price point. I'm seated roughly seven-feet away and the 3D sound stage is huge – often a full three feet out from the far sides of the P3's, holographic imaging is crazy from this amp.

 

Near field has gone through a change in meaning over the years. I am talking about a little less than three feet from my ears. I like to call it my audio "train layout" of HO scale with lots of fine detail to scale. Some people prefer the scale much larger. I remember sitting in the Fillmore East in the late 60's watching the debut of the Jeff Beck Group. From where I sat, if I held up my thumb like an artist, the musicians standing on stage were shorter than my thumb. I do not desire to have a system where I can feel the musicians are right in front of me. I am a musician, and some of the raunchiest sound one can hear is when you are only a few feet away from the band. But, back off, and give them distance, it takes on a euphonious inspiration. So.. I enjoy a HO scale sound stage. But, a very accurate one. Big sound is not my objective. Accurate and to scale at some breathing distance is what I desire.

Amps should only contribute so much to the sound to sweeten it up. There is a YouTube video I finished watching the other day. It explains why we should realistically get our priorities straight, or we will be flipping from one piece of equipment after another. Of course, there is always room for improvement in many cases. But, sometimes by simply making sure all the power running through the system is cleaned up makes a tremendous difference. I found two giant steps for my ears (besides using a good power conditioner) was plugging around my apartment the Audio Prism Quietlines and using SilClear contact enhancer on all my connections within reason. Each one was a big leap forward in improving what I am hearing. Like a new amplifier can. That means, improving what you moved up to, as well. Here is the video I just told you about.. It pulls back an opaque curtain and let us honestly see what we are facing when trying to find our match made in heaven audio system.

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Same with Sonneteer and Spendor, Rafe. All of my listening is near field. Just for giggles back when I had the little P3ESR's and a Sonneteer Alabaster I used them in the big room with big band music and the like. The result was nothing short of amazing!

 

what exactly is a "Campion" did someone actually mean "Champion" and just happened to have slipped a verbal gear here?!?

 

I had a similar experience way back when while using a pair of KEF 101 Mini-Monitors with a vintage Amber 50B while listening to records like Count Basie live. At that time I had no notion of what near field listening was to be. Stupid me returned them because I wanted a more traditional room filling sound to shake the room. Just the same, what I heard left a lasting impression.