Groovetracer subplatter and P3-24 a Home Run!

Intellectual property rights? Patent rights? If Roy Gandy hadn't designed the turntable, Frank wouldn't have anything to modify, tweak, whatever you want to call it.

 

Are you stating for fact that Rega patents are being infringed upon?? It's doubtful, despite his genius, that Gandy has patents on 'subplatters' and 'platters'. And these certainly aren't "copies" of protected items, they're improvements (to the design at a particular price point, of course).

 

You are single handedly heading this thread toward lockdown. Why the anomosity?

 

Killed my dog. So funny, Marc. You ought to try and get work as a comedian.

Seriously though, I don't know why you guys are so defensive about this.

For my part, as a creative person, yes, it galls me to see people making money off of someone else's invention without paying them anything. And then there's the issue of the implication that the turntables as designed by their designer are flawed...that they need to be enhanced. As a turntable designer, were I one, I would feel insulted by Frank.

I'm not trying to get you and Tone and the other guy to agree with me, btw. I was just asking a question (which nobody answered). Obviously we differ in our opinions on this matter.

I wonder why is it so important to you that I come around to your POV. When you make fun of me, that's what I think: that it matters somehow to you that I get on board with the tweak freak show. I'm not going to.

Truly, this matter isn't that important to me. All I did was ask a question. Y'all are very defensive about it. I wonder why.

 

Who's making money off of someone else's invention. Every turntable has a subplatter, Gandy didn't invent the friggen subplatter. Give it up!

 

If the shoe fits.

 

I'm not stating anything. I'm asking questions. Before last night, I had no idea my P3 was so in need of a replacement subplatter. This guy was going on about Frank and his "high standards for himself and his products," the implication being, IMO, that Roy Gandy's standards aren't quite as high, since only "we lucky few" benefit, i.e., those who don't accept the standard Rega turntables.

Then Tonepub said "Between Franks goodies and the upgraded power supply, no more saying the P3 doesn't have enough bass or sounds "thin,"" damning with faint praise, IMO, the stock P3.

And somehow, it seems important to them that I believe in this "upgrade." That's the funny part. What does it matter what I believe?

 

I don't understand your point here. He designs the P3... by definition, even he thinks it "has flaws" if he also designs a P5,7&9. What design on earth can't be improved. And if I can only afford a P3 now, what's so morally wrong with adding nicer parts when I can afford them? Can you imagine if the architect of your home saw what you've done to it??

 

It's not a matter of my adding something to my P3. It's some guy who makes money making changes to someone else's design.

I'm through with this. Obviously, I've struck some kind of nerve. I wish I hadn't asked.

 

No, it's not about wanting you to get on board with the tweak freak show. It's about not throwing rotten tomatoes at us as we drive by.

 

I'll say it again Jay F, LOUDER in case you didn't hear the first time. ROY GANDY DID NOT INVENT THE SUBPLATTER!. Do your homework before you start throwing stones. A subplatter supports the platter in every turntable I've ever seen.....that was manmade. Perhaps Mr. Gandy owes one of our ancestors a few bucks for profiting from their design as well?

 

I wish I could remember the time you did this before, so I could pull up the thread. I remember you overreacting then, too. We took it to PM and all was well after that.

It's just that your reaction strikes most other people as odd. It's not about capitalizing on someone else's design. It's about INNOVATION. It's about improving existing products. It's one of the cornerstones of capitalism.

You're basically saying, "I disapprove of all innovation." You didn't strike a nerve. You just went off on a rather weird tangent.

It's one thing to say, "I don't believe in tweaks. I've tried quite a few and always feel that they are a waste of time." Most of us can respect that. But what you're saying is something entrirely different.

 

Someone better alert KAB for selling Technics mods.

 

And let's go after all the makers of speaker stands as well. I mean, placing a speaker on anything other than a floor or a bookshelf sounds a little tweaky to me.

 

So was Emile Berliner at fault for modifying Edison's recording techniques which has become the standard that we still use today? The list could go on and on. It's technological evolution, no?

 

Well if we take this flawed logic to the ultimate conclusion, everyone who makes automobiles should be paying royalties to Mercedes Benz, because they invented the automobile.

As for your thinking my insinuating that the P3 in stock form is flawed, every piece of hifi gear made is flawed to a certain extent.

No one out here is a bigger fan of Rega than myself. I've owned my P3 since 1982... Gave it to a good freind last year who was getting into audio.
And I currently own a P3, a P25 and a P9.

Honestly, I don't care if you come around to my point of view or not. I think you are funny.

My job is to report what I hear. If you don't agree or don't like it, whatever. If you are happy with what you are hearing that's fine.

I think it's a very high compliment to the engineering of the P3 that by improving one part, it can sound even better. i.e. reveal more music than the original.

Open up any car, motorcycle, bicycle, skateboard magazine. You name the product, there is a complete industry built up around aftermarket upgrades.

Stay grumpy and close minded. Me, I'll keep enjoying the upgrade to my P3. And I'll happily recommend Franks upgrades to any of my freinds and readers that always ask "how can I get a little bit more sound out of my Rega?"

 

Blimey. This is all a bit odd.

I really don't see what the aggro is. Rega could easily create an equivalent subplatter, but the cost of the P3 would go up. It might even be called a P4. Rega know that the P3 is flawed, otherwise they wouldn't make a P5 etc. The P3's built to a price point, so there are compromises.

Anyway, Rega arms are used as replacements/enhancements on other manufacturers decks, often to upgrade the manufacturers own arms, and tonearms have been around for a fair old while until the RB250/300 came out.

Should Mr Gandy shell out for effectively saying that other people's designs are flawed?

Jay, if you now bought, say, a Linn or a VPI, wouldn't you effectively be saying that every single part of your P3 is bettered by whatever you bought?

That's a much bigger "tweak" (which is just a faintly pejorative term for "change") than replacing a single part.

 

Hi Jay:

It's me, you know "this guy, "the other guy", "the one who implies"
I do actually have a name. You can use Avbuff, or Steve if you like.
Actually, I think your questions have been answered, and you're choosing not to accept the many responses. Oh, and when I made the statement, "We lucky few", I was referring to all of us as a music loving community, not as the "tweak, freak show"
Later folks...
the other guy!

 

Wow...

I have to guess, as an owner of the Groovetracer subplatter, that anyone who has seen and used this beautiful piece of equipment would love it instantly. Hold the stock Rega subplatter in one hand and the Groovetracer in the other. It's like they are not even the same parts!

I see no problem with replacing parts on any piece of equipment. Look at all the counterweight options out there. I doubt all of those companies pay royalties to the companies of the turntables they are installed on.

Really, these are just ways of getting some extra sound quality out of our vinyl. Let's not make it out to be a crime!

 

Any idea if any of these mods would make a whit of difference for an old Planar 2 (in terms of function and value for investment)?

 

Scotto, How old is you Planar 2? Have you installed the motor upgrade kit?
http://www.rega.co.uk/html/upgrade_kits.htm

 

Got it in 1982 and I haven't changed anything. It's been my everyday turntable since the day I got it and I'll eventually move it to the second system (when I get a second system that is) and purchase a new turntable.
But since I'll likely keep it as my only 'table for a while, I was just wondering if any of these mods would make much of a sonic difference, or is the ol' Planar 2 too far down the Rega food chain to benefit sonically.
(That motor kit does look intriguing, though.)

 

Nothing wrong with a Planar 2. In fact, P2s are more tweakable (sorry, Jay F!) because of the RB250 tonearm, and they way they almost ask to be modified.

 

Heh. And sometimes mine doesn't ask very politely.
The problem is that I could opt for the motor upgrade, a rewire, acrylic platter, and new subplatter, but I'd be looking at about $800, plus my incredibly valuable time. Sure it'd be loads of fun, but I'd end up with an $800 25-year-old Planar 2.
So of all these tweaks, which would be the best bang-for-buck investment in terms of sound?

 

I'm amazed by some of Jay's comments. Good people like Frank make Rega mods which add sonic value for a price. If you don't like that then you don't have to buy it.

I think there is a possibility that some of Frank's mods may lead Rega to make a better table or perhaps expand their customer base by making new levels of sonics available.

I'm not sure why this would be a bad thing...???