Groovetracer subplatter and P3-24 a Home Run!

Musicdirect doesn't sell them. Josh Bizar called me over two years ago to discuss the possibility of selling the products but we never worked anything out.

 

My system is pretty simple. I have a Tube audio design TAD-60 integrated tube amp, ascend sierra speakers,
Graham slee era gold phono, grover interconnects and a blackbird cartridge.

From top to bottom, everything is just more open and detailed, "tightened up" and even the prat seems better. You'd have to hear for yourself I guess.

 

I also have a P25 with the sub-platter (purchased late last year, thanks Frank!) and other things that I've played around with over the past few years. In my case, I had an acrylic platter and Michell counterweight before purchasing the sub-platter. My experience re: result of the changes mirrors the above.

I probably could have just upgraded the turntable at some stage in the whole process but my upgrade path has suited my cash flow a lot better, developed with my listening skills and has of course been enjoyable.

Out of interest, I took my turntable with mods to a friend's place for a comparison with a standard P25 (although not with the same cartridge.). All who heard the modified P25 much preferred it by a significant amount over the standard one. I know all this is fairly subjective - the comparison was only done for a bit of fun and to do some comparisons of various pressings of LPs (that's another story!).

I totally understand if someone prefers a standard Rega or to upgrade through the Rega line - the choice is after all up to the individual at the end of the day. Despite (or because of) the changes I have made, I will not be selling my Rega anytime soon!

 

What exactly is the purpose of the counterweight?

I get how the subplatter would possibly make a difference but what does the counterweight exactly do and how does that improve sound and in what way?

 

I put the sub platter on my P5 almost right away, so can't really speak to differences. All I can say is that it spins dead center and level with no play in the spindle, and that the stock subplatter spindle was off center by about 3/8 of an inch. Workmanship was top class, tightly toleranced and installation easy (just be really careful). The P9 uses a subplatter more similar to the groovetracer, so that would make me think that Rega does recognize the benefit of such a subplatter. Of course to do accurate A/B comparisons is'nt really practical, what are you going to do keep putting it off and on? I can say I do like my P5 with the groove tracer sub.

 

That's why when we reviewed it, we used a pair of P3's. One stock and one with the mod. Same cartridge and plugged both into the same phono preamp (ASR Basis Exclusive) with two inputs, so we could switch back and forth easily...

 

Similar for me. When I put it on, I hadn't played any vinyl in a three or four days. Plug, play and enjoy, I say. The one thing I noticed immediately, though, was just as Reeler described. The performance of the stock subplatter bothered me to the point that I was exchanging e-mails with Goldring and considering filing a warranty claim. Play a warped record and it was like a double whammo. Since installing the GT last year, it doesn't really matter that my daughter hid my record clamp knob somewhere never to be found again. I wish I could go back to do something of a "court-approved" A/B, but no regrets.

 

Would the Groovetracer products be overkill for someone with a P1?

 

Is the subplatter installation reversible? I assume the counterweight/acrylic platter are easy to swap. I ask because I have a P3 (2000) now and I would like to install these Groovetracer mods on this turntable. But down the road I may upgrade to a P5 and I would like to be able to take the Groovetracer parts and install them on the P5 and return the P3 to stock to sell. Is this possible?

 

Yes!

Ian, I think you can do that swap with no problems.

 

Thanks Chuck G

 

I apologize, but I got the products mixed up. While I cannot attest to your specific product, I have heard modified Rega's utilizing other similar products and I found the improvements to be significant. I'm sure you feel that your products are better than the competing products, but I certainly can attest to the improvements over the standard Rega platter, sub-chassis, and counterweight. I was particularly surprised in the improvement with the counterweight.

 

The counterweights job is to counteract the movement of the cartridge around the tonearm pivot point. In the Rega tonearm and also in most all other arms, the vertical pivot point is the center of the arm tube. It is this vertical pivot point which is most critical to balance as the lateral pivot point is rather limited in movement as it is directly controlled by the groovewalls rather than by a combination of that and gravity. Because of this lateral captivity, most mistracking is done by the stylus losing contact with the groove walls in the vertical axis. For that reason, tracking force and the counterweight are important in keeping the stylus in the groove. In order to correctly counter the movement of the arm tube as directed by the stylus, the counterweight must be concentric to the arm tubes extention. The extension is called the stub shaft on Rega arms.

In addition to being concentric with the stubshaft/armtube, the performance is also increased when the weight can be located laterally closer to the pivot. That means being shoved farther onto the stubshaft, closer to the pivot point and also by being closer to the imaginary centerline of the stubshaft when possible. When this is done, the reaction time of the arm is shortened and this again results in better tracking. Rega makes several counterweights and each has an advantage based on its size. The RB250 is fitted with a mild steel weight which is the largest of these and so it has a less accurate response time than the smaller stainless weight as fitted to the RB301 and RB700 on the P5. They also have a tungsten counterweight which is essentially the same weight as their stainless weight, yet it is even more dense and so occupys less space on the armstub and results in its center of gravity being closest to the pivot point. The tungsten weight is used on the RB700 when on the P7 and on the RB1000 on the P9. It is also available as an accessory.

There is a heavyweight version also but this is only used when needed to balance out heavier cartridges. It would limit the performance of the arm if used when not necessary and it also changes the resonant frequency of the arm by increasing arm mass.
-Bill

 

I’ve been living with the Groovetracer Deluxe Subplatter upgrade on my P3-2000 for a few days. I’m impressed. First off – it makes the stock plastic subplatter look like a toy. Not that this necessarily matters, but I feel good just knowing this is under the hood.

What initially struck me most was the improvement in imaging. I never thought my set-up imaged particularly well, but I do now. There’s now a depth dimension to the soundstage that I’d been lacking. Everything is a little better from top to bottom. The bass is particularly more refined. I think Mac sums it up perfectly for me in his quotes above.

I also noticed that at least one of my difficult lps somehow plays better. For example, I’ve always thought that the Classic Records CSN (couch) album was all over the map sonically. Now it plays much more consistently with less harshness during certain harmonies.

The Groovetracer subplatter (and the Pete Riggle VTAF) are making me a happy listener. And for the record, I’m in the camp that thinks the improvements are subtle.

Anthony

 

My Rega dealer told me that I shouldn't use a different subplatter. The one fitted to the current P3/24 is "frequency tuned" to match the frequency of the other stuff that it connects to and effectively cancel out noise and vibration...

Does the Goovetracer subplatter consider this issue?

 

Sergio,

Why don't you just PM Vinyl-Addict? He's the one that makes them if I'm not mistaken.

Eric

 

Groovetracer Subplatter- user input requested

Thinking about "pulling the trigger" on a Groovetracer Reference subplatter. I have a Rega P3-2000 with an Exact 2 cartridge. When changing records, I like to do so as Rega recommends, without shutting the table down.

Users of the Groovetracer subplatter- is changing records on the fly any more difficult with the GT that has a longer spindle to allow for clamping, than with using the stock subplatter that has a very short contoured spindle?

Thanks in advance for your insights!

 

You can still change records on the fly.

 

you can change records on the fly, no record clamp needed my friend! I replaced the stock subplatter on a Rega P5 with the GT Subplatter. Very glad I did, the tolerance on the GT was better than stock, it spun very smoothly, bass was tighter and more defined. No affiliation with GT, but IMO was a very worthwhile upgrade (along with upgrading the counterweight) on my P5....

Theron

 

Another happy Groovetracer subplatter user here...no problems changing records without stopping the platter.

 

Just how much difference can a different counterweight make? I would like to get the subplatter, but so far I am really happy with my p3-24 and I am not sure there would be a huge difference.

 

The Groovetracer Reference is a significant upgrade to a Rega, IMHO. It significantly lowers the noise floor right off the bat, and only improves as the bearing runs in. This really makes a difference, because the S/N ratio improves and you can hear much more detail and inner detail in the music; the blacks are blacker adage. The runout is markedly lower than stock, and the platter diameter is more accurate for the rotational speed, so the wow/flutter and pitch accuracy is improved. The Delrin pads decouple the platter, so everything improves across the board. Also the spindle is much more finely made, so that the record fits on the platter better, with less movement, which just helps to couple the LP to the platter and mat.

Really a great product. If were going to buy any Rega, the first thing I would do is order up a GrooveTracer Reference.

 

Are you saying there would not be a huge difference from the counterweight, or from the subplatter?

I can assure you there is a big difference from the subplatter.

 

I'd go for the subplatter and bearing first. When I built my own tt, I found it was a real qualitative and quantitive improvement to get the main bearing quiet and solid. Fit, finish, connection to the main structure, oil.. the works. More everything and better everything.

A tonearm weight will make a change mainly to the way the arm resonates, particularly at the main (stylus compliance and arm mass) frequency. This can make a surprising difference to bass quantity and articulation, but may or may not be an actual improvement. If the arm has resonance problems (Regas don't) it can ameliorate them. The jury's still out on whether a rigid fix for the weight is better than a floppy, rubberized one.. again, for the reasons above. No clear winners, but differences you can choose.

HTH

 

I don't always use the counterweight, but where I've found it really useful is with heavier cartridges...