Harsh sibilance on new Technics (Depeche mode some great reward)

Hi all. This is my first post on this forum and I suspect as I'm relatively new to this hobby it won't be my last!
I'm experiencing harsh enough sibilance with my new Technics sl1500c/Cambridge Duo phono pre. cartridge is an ortofon 2m red.
It's classic end of groove (mostly) sibilance: Harsh distorted 's' and 't' sounds and an annoying rasping noise on high,loud passages.

This is very noticeable on Depeche Mode's 1984 album Some Great Reward if any are familiar- the song Blasphemous Rumours is slightly annoying to listen to as it's at the end of side 2. Especially with headphones (sony wh1000mx3).

My cart is aligned with Stevenson (overhang gauge coming soon in post), but I never trust my alignments. VTF at 2g, the max for this cart. Antiskate to match.
Is there any fix for this or do other listeners to this album experience the same distortion?
Don't know why they always put singles at the end of sides lol.

Please don't recommend a crazy priced cartridge or anything, I've nothing in the bank account after getting the table and headphones haha!

By the way, why am I unable to add tags, it's telling me I'm not allowed?!

 

I would check your tonearm settings first: vta, tracking, and anti-skate. Did you set up the cartridge yourself, using the alignment tool? If not, I would make that step one.

It could also be that your cartridge just needs some burn-in. Typically takes 60-100 hours.

Lastly, the DMs could just be not great pressings. Or they’re dirty (sometimes they come a little dirty from the plant). Try cleaning the record.

 

The 2M Red sucks at tracking sibilants and inner grooves, sorry to say. Consider it a freebie throw in with your turntable.

RE: that record, what specific pressing are you talking about? If it's a later reissue, those aren't the best and used compressed digital remasters as the source, then were cut on the hot side. Even with the better cart they won't sound ideal, but a cart like the 2m Red will have trouble with them in particular.

 

Sounds like you have spent time/effort on getting your alignment right. Is it only happening on that DM album? If so, the record could be damaged or cut too hot.

It is true though that the 2M Red has a bad reputation for IGD issues.

 

FWIW, I have the original UK pressing, and it's rather trebly and inherently sibilant / hot. Only more advanced styli profiles will track that reasonably well.

 

Fyi - The rhino reissue for that DM album sounds very good, and the recent SGR 12" boxset sounds phenominol. Not advocating you spend more money that you don't have, just reminding you there are hardware and software things to consider.

Good luck with new hobby and welcome to forum.

 

A few possibilities:

• Your stylus cant track it properly
• Worn grooves
• Inherent sibilance

I would start by checking if digital counterparts are less sibilant. Then upgrade your cart. Some records just cant be tracked flawlessly by Elliptical styli. My recommendation is the ATVM95ML, cheapest way to get the best available stylus.
If all else fails it may just be worn grooves or a poor cut.

 

Every US/Sire pressing of Some Great Reward that I've heard suffers from terrible sibilance. I get nasty sibilance even with my AT VM540ML cartridge. I've always wanted to hear a UK pressing in the hopes that it would be better, but it sounds like, according to Zaroff, it's not any better.

I've heard terrible things about the Rhino reissues (poor quality control) so I've steered clear of those.

Given my experience with this record, there's nothing you can do to eliminate the sibilance. No amount of messing around with VTF, anti-skate, etc., is going to solve the problem. You might reduce it slightly with a microline cart like mine, but you won't be able to eliminate it.

Just get the CD!

 

Hi, replying to all here as cant reply individually to each one. I'm amazed at the amount of people trying to help, much appreciated all.
As I say I've the overhang gauge coming in the post but the cart is aligned perfectly with a Stevenson protractor.
I heard increasing T/weight may help- even at the max for this cartridge it's still the same (2g). Anti skate adjusted to suit.
TT is completely level, stylus clean, record clean.

It seems to boil down to two things: either the cartridge or the pressing, or a bit of both.
Interesting to hear that others have the same issue with this album.
Wish BR wasn't at the end of a side as it's a banger.

It's not just this album, I've had similar experiences with The Hurting by Tears for Fears- check out Memories Fade/ Start of the Breakdown. Don't sound great,
However other records like Spandau Ballet's Journeys to Glory (1981) sound good even on inner tracks.
Maybe the records? I imagine it is near impossible to get used records especially online that dont have idg/ wear...or else it would involve returning almost every record lol.

Do you just have to put up with it sometimes?

Afraid it will be a while before I can upgrade the cart.

 

It's the original UK '84 pressing.
Does anybody own 'A Broken Frame'? See You or should I say 'shee you' is terrible also, at the end of side one

 

2M blue stylus

 

Lol, yeah, I found the Red to suffer Outer Groove Distortion, Middle Groove Distortion, and Inner Groove Distortion.

Get yourself a VM95ML and you'll never again wonder if you can do better on IGD.

 

I have an '84 original US pressing of 'Reward and it will be up next. After that I'll play 'Frame side 1.

Anything else- black celebration, construction time again, speak and spell?

 

Well, it does play reasonably correctly (not WELL) with a 540ML, so it's not a complete catastrophe. For the record (no pun intended) when I had a lesser cartridge, this one was rather nasty in part, but less bad than the reissue a couple of years ago (or was it more? Don't remember). The reissue was unlistenable, hot and crunchy from start to finish, and I exchanged for something else until I tracked the original on Discogs.

I'll take a listen to "See you" on the original 1982 pressing and let know the results...

 

I have Speak and Spell but it's the 180g reissue. Never seemed to have a problem with that particular one but haven't listened to it in a while, not on my new setup.
Need to get more DM records, I have a very hard time sourcing originals though. My ABF has a lot of surface noise but I put up with it as it's particularly hard to come by. How does the reissue sound if you have it?

 

ooooh, some great reward is off to a bad start, and it is not my hardware or setup. some hissy sibilance and what sounds like slight overmodulation. not horrible yet.

 

If I were to get a new cartridge in the future I'm between the AT440a , Ort Blue anD VM95ML.
(Had a VM95e which did nothing for me).
Is it true I just have to buy a Blue stylus and stick it on my red cart?

 

Okay, so on my 1982 french pressing of ABF (lots of surface noise as well), "See you" isn't "Shhhhhhhhee you", rather "S(s)ee you", maybe. But very listenable with the 540ML, to me that is. Hope that helps.

 

I did notice sibilance on Something to Do, but after checking on YT it seems to be on the recording so don't lose hope!
Pay attention to People are People also, the chorus seems to get a little unpleasant (on my setup anyway)
Try to enjoy the music It's a brilliant album minus the distortion which is a shame

 

Well maybe I was exaggerating just a bit!
From memory, the line '...the times change...' sounded harsh on my setup
The 'ch' at the end of ...'Touch you...' almost gave me a breakdown until I noticed it was the same on the recording as well

God, I wonder what the lads would make of it if they saw this thread haha

 

settling down through master and servant, just noticeable hiss on the s's. been a long time since playing this, enjoying the music.

 

Facepalming at us nerds

 

Yes, but a blue stylus wont track better than the Red.

 

OK blasphemos rumors has a boat load of bright hiss in the vocals. it is pronounced and barely tolerable. sounds like the mic was too hot. i think its just a bad recording, not a pressing issue.
my vinyl system is excellent BTW.

 

It's not Depeche, but I played this album the other day and the 95ML sails through it. You can see that the deadwax if very narrow. I have many, many records like this.



I don't have the specific record OP is talking about but when I have time I will listen to my CD versions of some of those DM songs and see if I can detect sibilance baked into the recording (I'm very sensitive to this). Often it's a case of the way the singer enunciates words or the way their voice was miked. Not possible to fix a situation like that 100% but a better tracking/tracing cartridge will mitigate it more than a known crappy tracking/tracing one.