Help a guy who wants to enjoy headphones but can’t

Yes you are, but all of us are missing out on something in this hobby. I have a small room that I have speakers in, but I'm still missing out on the ability to have a big room and the kind of objectively better speakers one can fit in a big room.

 

I would quickly say yes but if you are digging your phones then mission accomplished. If you can take some of your favorite music to a good stereo store and ask for a demo, you can see for yourself if you are missing something. There are some pretty good shops in Cincy.

One big thing is the fun of listening to music in a social setting.

 

Ditto; best response so far.

 

TBH unless you also invest in more expensive and in particular power hungry headphones, I don't think you'd need more then the Vali. I bought one for my Sennheisers and moved up to the Lyr when I got Audezes, but the Sennys don't really sound much different in the 4x more expensive Lyr then the Vali with the same source.

 

Please don't turn this thread into yet another headphone vs. speakers debate. That's not going to help the OP.
And if you have no experience with proper headphone listening then please just sit back and learn something from this thread instead of piping up with "headphones suck".
Thanks

 

I'm a relatively new headphone convert. I used to be one who hated the thought of wearing something around my head to enjoy music. One advantage that headphones can have over speakers is detail. Especially if you listen with revealing cans. It's been a pretty nice pleasure noticing things I'd never really heard before through loudspeakers. I've come to the conclusion that I need both speakers and headphones in my life, much as I need CD and vinyl. It's not an either/or proposition for me.

 

Mushrooms.

Easily the best upgrade for my headphone rig thus far.

 

There are tradeoffs... headphones tend to be less than optimal for soundstage and bass impact, but $300 headphones and a $200 headphone amp can offer detail, high frequency extension, etc, that it would take thousands in speaker gear to match.

 

The ultimate upgrade for mostly everything

 

If you can't get into headphones, but have some money burning a hole in your pocket, buy some new music instead!

 

At the expense of some impact, that is. This is esp true for rock music.

 

Try some serious Stax and get back to me.

 

Plenty of "soundstage" with my old HD580's.

The better the recording, playback source and amp, the more beyond my head the music appears to extend. I have to check I'm wearing headphones frequently in the early hours as it sounds too much like it's in the room disturbing the neighbours - however, this may be because I have lost much of my nerve response due to illness and can't really feel if they're on my ears?

I assume open-back 'phones are more expansive in this regard - perhaps because they are less distorted? It seems to me, the less distortion added to the source en route to your ears, the more the headphones disappear aurally - and the more the sound extends beyond you rather than being just trapped between your ears.

 

If it's so hard, why bother? Shouldn't the hobby just be fun?

 

I love my AKG 701s and just bought a pair of Shure SE 215 that I really like for all of $99. My first pair of real in-ear buds.

speaker placement has some strong issues and I have enjoyed recently some bookshelf speakers set out into my office room at least 4 feet from any wall and really like that presentation on many things. But, I still love headphone listening and I do not own any binaural recordings that might enhance that enjoyment even more.

I also like my Grado 80s ( and it is time for a new pair, maybe 125's this time), and my pairs of Sony 7506's for recording work.

 

I like large three way speakers the most for the very best sound but can't do it in a condo now. I've also owned headphones all my life from horrible plastic covered crap in the 70s to my first not crap 'phones, Koss Portapro (for my first CD player, a portable JVC in my rented room) to pretty good now. Bought a pair of decent floor standing PSB speakers in the late 90's and thought they were great until I bought Sennheiser HD600 headphones. The HD600 destroyed the speakers. I had to spend $2,000 on some ATC bookshelf speakers to compete. Don't know what I'd have to spend to compete with my Oppo headphones now. I think the only serious drawback to headphones is the possibility of hearing damage if some caution is not used. It may seem crazy but I hate being forced to sit upright in a certain spot to get the best out of speakers. I'm not bothering to worry about what I might be missing by using headphones because I love too much just laying on the sofa listening decently loud and bothering no one.

 

Yes, you're missing out. But one isn't necessarily better than the other - they're different experiences. I enjoy both greatly and use both on a daily basis for extended periods of time.

 

Stay away from listening to speakers or you'll hate your headphones. Glad you enjoy them though

 

In my experience, a well recorded room acoustic can, if played back accurately (preserving the spacial cues as much as possible), sound real-sized on headphones - they completely disappear (again, perhaps my loss of sensation helps in this regard?)

 

Since it's the second time you bring up the subject, do you mind if I ask you what kind of sensorial perception have you been deprived of ? Maybe unrelated, but a good chunk of my right foot is insensitive because of severed nerves during surgery (3 tumors removed, 1 year in crutches+rehab)

 

Sorry to hear of your difficulties, Waxfreak

All over very reduced sensation - long history of MS type symptoms but not shown up on MRI yet (diagnosed as functional neurological disorder). After a severe exacerbation of symptoms a couple of years ago I stopped being able to tell where my body parts are without looking. Kind of weird but as with anything, you get used to it (not much of a choice).

I mention it because I wonder if my new found love of headphone listening is because I get this illusion that I'm not wearing them. Or, is that normal on a decent set up? I began listening more on headphones after moving to a flat so, again, there may be other factors at work. I have no choice but to use the phones for any reasonable level. Oddly enough, I'm told I have them pretty loud when they seem just right to me - perhaps I have lowered sensitivity everywhere? I know, be careful with my ears - I decided a while back that I'd rather enjoy the music fully while I can!

Still, it makes sense to me that on an accurate system, you could get the illusion of a room acoustic in your cans and hear the sound as if you are in that volume. Maybe there's a bit of everything helping to make the illusion work?

 

I've been thinking about this today and I still don't know how to write a reply that adequately describes and explains the concept of headphone soundstage and how certain styles of headphone sound are capable of being outside of your head. It's complex, and I don't understand it yet myself. But I do know it is possible. Cause I hear it happen with my own headphones. I just don't know how to explain what I'm hearing to other people who have not heard headphones yet in this way. I can demonstrate if you were here. Just listen to my Cavalli amp and my headphones and there it is. But if you have never heard anything similar then I don't know how to explain. There is nothing for you to relate to. How do you explain something as abstract as what I consider when an amp and headphone combination go holographic? If someone hasn't heard it before there is no way to explain the experience.

Instead I'll comment a little more about the artificial methods to get headphone sound out of your head. Methods like the "Out Of Your Head" software processing or the Smyth Realiser.

Smyth Realiser recommends using Stax headphones to get the proper experience from their processor. Darin Fong of "Out Of Your Head" also uses Stax headphones to get the most from his processing (look at his picture in the InnerFidelity review, he's wearing the top end Stax SR-009 headphones that are $4500 plus the cost of a special amp). There's a reason for that. The quality of the headphones matter for experiencing the most of this out of your head style sound. Stax headphones have a very open style of sound and a large unrestricted "headstage". Stax headphones are also planar and present a planar style wave to the ears. That planar style wave maintains phase much better than cone style drivers. It's similar to the concept of time aligned drivers in speakers. All the frequencies with a Stax headphone stay time aligned. And that is very very important when doing the kinds of processing that "Out Of Your Head" or the Smyth Realiser does. All of the processing that they do relies on phase to convey the sense of distance and depth. If the headphones mess up the phase then the 3Dness of the sound will be messed up. So this type of processing works best with headphones that don't mess up the phase and with headphones that are clean with low distortion. That's Stax. Planar magnetic headphones by companies like Audeze also fall into that category, but to a lesser degree (Audeze headphones are not as open sounding as Stax headphones and have a smaller soundstage). Headphones like the Sennheiser HD800 also are in this category. The HD800 uses a ring driver rather than a cone style driver.

The reasons why headphones like the Stax, Audeze, other planar magnetics, and the HD800 work so well with the spacial processing done by "Out Of Your Head" and the Smyth Realiser are the same reasons why those same headphones do so well with presenting a better soundstage with normal headphone amps without that special processing. There's a reason why people hear better soundstage with those headphones than with $200 consumer level headphones.

As an exercise to help explain what I'm trying to get at, I'll leave you with one of the most epic headphone reviews from Head-Fi. The epic Stax SR-007 Omega II review by darth nut back in 2003. That review introduced the world to the concept of headstage. And headstage is a large part of what this out of your head style of sound is about.

The original Stax SR-007 review as it was on head-fi: http://www.head-fi.org/t/40313/stax-sr-007-omega-ii-a-review-after-4-years-of-ownership
A reformatted version that is easier to read: http://www.soundbsessive.com/room/stax-sr-007-omega-ii-a-review-darth-nut-2003/

That was the introduction to the world of the concept of headstage. Headstage is the equivalent of the room size in the speaker world. The soundstage is what fits within the headstage. A headphone with a larger headstage can contain and present a soundstage that is larger. A headphone with a deeper headstage is capable of presenting a soundstage that is deeper and more 3D. And there is the secret. Find a headphone and amp combination that is able to do a large and deep headstage and you'll have a headphone listening experience that is capable of doing a deep and 3D soundstage.

The unfortunate bit is that the epic darth nut review was done back in early 2000. Back in the dark ages of headphone amps. Some headphone amps today are better and are capable of more 3D effect and capable of a deeper headstage. Back during the time of that review it was common for high quality amps to have a flat and very planar headstage. That was normal. And that was what the best amps were capable of. That is no longer the case. Today we have amps that are capable of a deeper headstage. We now have amps that can do more of a headstage bubble rather than a headstage plane. And that is the part that I'm struggling to figure out how to explain. What does it mean to be listening to a headstage bubble instead of a headstage plane? My Cavalli amp does a headstage bubble while most amps do just a plane. And that is the part I'm struggling to figure out how to explain. That bubble is what helps me hear regular stereo outside of my head from headphones. I'll sleep on it and try to figure out how to explain this tomorrow.

 

Not correct AFAIC.

 

Listen to the Stax "Space Sound" CD - recorded with a Neumann dummy head - the first time I heard it, I knew nothing about what to expect and thought the guitar player in the corner of the room in the recording was somehow playing in the real corner of the room. That has never happened with any other recording or ever with speakers.