HELP! Ortofon 2M Black Mistracking Fagen's Nightfly MoFi 1-Step?

I'm having some weirdness with my Ortofon 2M Black tracking a bit of the new MoFi One-Step pressing of Donald Fagen's The Nightfly LP. The cymbals at the beginning of "The Goodbye Look" are sibilant/distorted.

I've tried messing with the cartridge alignment, the VTA, the tracking weight (I've been running it at 1.8g, per Harry Weisfeld's advice), playing the record with and without the mechanical antiskate (I normally don't use this), and even removing and re-seating the stylus, and every time I get pretty much the same result. I've also broken the shrinkwrap on one of my other copies of the record just in case I got a bad pressing and I get the same thing.

I am *not* hearing this on the Japanese SACD version. I've also had a friend with an
Audio-Technica AT33PTGii Dual Moving Coil Cartridge send me a needle drop of the same track on his setuo and his sounds fine.

I've included links to 30 second samples below.

Do I have a bad cartridge or stylus? Is my setup fubar? Have I managed to get two bum pressings numbered about 3000 apart? Or have I run into some weird limitation of the 2M Black?

Thanks for any and all comments.
----

Here's my 2M Black:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/dharmabumstead/nightfly/NightflyGBL-2MBlack.wav

Here's my friend's AT33PTGii:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/dharmabumstead/nightfly/NightflyGBL-AT33PTGii.wav

Here's an analog rip of the Japanese SHM-SACD:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/dharmabumstead/nightfly/NightflyGBL-SACD.wav

 

Is there any dust/gunk on the stylus?

 

First of all modern pressings are cut high . They are prone to sibilance.
Prior to this record you were perfectly happy?
A test record such as HI - FI news
Band1 will tell you all you need to know.
The 2M Black is a superb tracker.
A worn stylus would not help.
I don,t necessarily reccommend a test record for setting up. In any case you have between 1.5 - 1.7 i believe to play with.
If you pass band1 then your cartridge is fine. Please don,t get into a struggle over the other test bands.
I suspect the record in question is faulty..

 

How many hours do you have on the stylus ?
Could you try one of your copies on your friend's setup as well, or his copy on your system ?

 

There's nothing on the stylus. The stylus is cleaned quite frequently with an Onzow Zerodust.

This is not the original stylus. I managed to break the original stylus while being a bit careless with the Zerodust - I rammed the hard plastic body of the Zerodust into the stylus as I was going to clean it one day. I wept appropriately over this and got a replacement stylus and installed it about a week later. This replacement stylus has maybe 100-150 hours on it.

I've been pretty happy with the 2M Black since I got it. I haven't really experienced this with any other records.

I've tried two different copies of the MFSL One-Step Nightfly and have this problem with both copies. The first copy is numbered in the 600s and the second copy is in the 4000s. I have a third copy that I am reluctant to break the shrinkwrap on but might in a pinch.

Kinda stumped.

 

I have heard of no issues with Nightfly. Is you gain adjustable on your phono stage. Try dopping it down a notch. What about loading?
Tim

 

No adjustable gain - I'm using a Lounge LCR MarkIII pre into a NAD C375BEE integrated amp.

 

Any other records sound off?

 

Instead of trying multiple copies with the same cart on the same system, try those on someone else's system.

 

Did you look at it under magnification? The Zerodust won't get everything. I learned that from experience and we just had a thread on this with some guy's Dynavector.

 

If you have done 150 hours without bias
One side of stylus may be worn.
This is not hard to solved s,
It's just expensive.
Me i run a Shure V15mk 3.
Stylus are not too expensive and i always have a spare.
So I would try a new stylus. In your case at the high cost its a costly way.
As Patient 01 has suggested you must confirm your copy by trying it out on another system
If test record suggest all is well
A new stylus does not cure
And its faulty on another system
Its your album
However, if another stylus cures you have your answer
If it does play on another system
Then overhang , cartridge orientation in headshell vtf need checking ,
If a new stylus did cure, you might
Care to have it tested to see if lack of bias has resulted in wear on one side of stylus due to bias error

 

Putting aside the clearly audible distortion (sorry), the Orotofn is the best sounding sample here, the SACD is a distant third.

 

It's gotta be the stylus.

I've spent hours setting the thing up, making sure the azimuth is correct, experimenting with different tracking forces...I finally caved and broke the shrinkwrap on my sealed copy of the 'Nightfly'. It sounds just like the first two. Sibiliance/distortion on the high hat (especially right at the start), before it settles down a bit.

I don't know if I should fork out for a new stylus or spend a bit more for a whole new cartridge...or give up and sell all my vinyl before I drive myself crazy. :0

 

I tried Frankensteining the stylus from a 2M Red onto the Black cartridge (it worked) and got the same distortion.

I fished my old V-LPS phono stage out of the closet and swapped it in. Same distortion.

Is it possible I hit the trifecta and managed to get three bad pressings in a row?

I don't hear this elsewhere, even on the same record. Here's a 30-second sample of the very next track on this side ("Walk Between Raindrops"):
https://s3.amazonaws.com/dharmabumstead/nightfly/NightflyWalkBetweenRaindrops2MBlack.wav

Stumped.

 

It's the cartridge. I listened to your samples and I immediately recognised the very same problem that made me sell my 2M Black.

Read this post.

 

Wow, that's interesting. And somewhat worrying.

I noticed before in the sample, it's only part of the treble that distorts.
And it seems to be the transients, the bursts. The trails sound cleaner.
It sounds to me more like something is being overloaded than a typical, piercing sibilant.

So then I thought maybe it's the cart, not the stylus. And now your post seems to confirm that.

 

Seems clear the cartridge body is at fault.
Red stylus same .shame?
Possibly buy another body( used) as that stylus should have plenty of life left.
Or buy a Shure 0r audio Technica or
Nagoaka .
Its annoying when this happens .

 

So, warranty has expired?

 

From what I understand, the Red and Blue share the same cartridge, and the Bronze and Black share the same cartridge. If your cartridge is defective, you could purchase a 2M Bronze cartridge/needle and use the cartridge part to replace your current cartridge, then sell the Bronze needle as “unused” and recoupe some of the inverstment.

 

I spent a few hours last night making sure the cartridge was set up perfectly - I even dug out my Hi-Fi News test disc and double checked the alignment and azimuth. The cart is set up as close to "perfect" as I think I can get it.

It simply seems to be that the 2M Black just doesn't like this pressing. I find this a little bit heartbreaking, since the 2M Black is so good with everything else.

I'm seriously considering getting another tonearm with a Nagoka MP-500 or a Soundsmith Zephyr or some other similarly well-reviewed non-MC cart so I can easily swap from the 2M Black when I encounter the rare disc that it doesn't handle well. Any recommendations for a cart that's sonically similar to the 2M Black but *without* the sibilance problem would be most welcome.

Thanks!

 

Upon reflection the 2m May Be
Telling the truth in that the pressing is lousy .
A few years ago
A mate bought a new interconnect
Cable . He experienced harshness.
so he refitted the old interconnect.
Later his CD player developed a fault and was repaired . The service technician changed s few caps .
The player was improved beyond recognition
He tried the new cable and it sounded
Superb, no harshness.
It appears thst the new cable was very
Transparent and revealed harshness that the old cable masked,
So your 2m black may be telling it as it is .

 

Hello, i just finished setting up my new ortofon 2m black cartridge with the HiFi news test disc. The cartridge is mounted on a RB303 tonearm. For tracking, no problem at all passing the tracking test band one side two . For Bias, no problem with band 6 (+12db) and band 7 (+14 db) side one. However the tracking force is 1.78 g. Should i try again to respect the range recommended by Ortofon (1.4 - 1.7 g) ? Also i have never been able to pass the bias test for band 8(+16 db) and 9. Is it normal or have i done something wrong ? Thanks ! Denis

 

I played my 2M black last week on a 33 rpm version of The Nightfly (spectacular sounding record BTW) and it definitely brings out the noise- which is why I have retired the 2M as a spare. Setup was completely optimized. The cartridge can get noisy in the treble region plain and simple. However I do like the midrange transparency.

When I use my Audio Technica ART9 MC cartridge or Dynavector LOMC the noise is not present.

PS- I tend to stay away from 45 RPM recordings FWIW.

 

Just revisiting this. I got Donald Fagen's Cheap Xmas box set and listened to the single-disc 33rpm version of The Nightfly that's included.

Here's the first 30 seconds of "The Goodbye Look" from that:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/dharmabumstead/nightfly/GoodbyeLookSnippetCheapXmasVersion.wav

Notice the lack of distortion and sibilance compared to the MoFi version:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/dharmabumstead/nightfly/NightflyWalkBetweenRaindrops2MBlack.wav

 

Oops - second link was supposed to be:
https://s3.amazonaws.com/dharmabumstead/nightfly/NightflyGBL-2MBlack.wav