Higher end tube phono stages...are they worth it?

Is it the one you have listed in your profile? The RPS 100 that says "For the Moving Coil stage we also employ high quality input transformers."?

 

Everybody has their set of rules they abide by. A member I've communicated with exclusively gets Japanese pressings. If it doesn't come from Japan, he isn't interested. Very often, they don't use the mastering I consider to be superior but it's not my money or ears. No need to debate it. If he's happy following that rule, that's all that matters.

Plenty of choices and ways of getting great results out there.

 

My bad, I took your comment to mean a tube phono stage should require an outboard SUT, a separate device.

 

Not sure what point you're trying to make here?

 

Yeah, I think all of what at the risk of smugness I'd call the "real tube stages" with MC do it by putting the SUT inside the box. As I understand it, if you're not doing it this way then the alternative is active gain stages, making it a hybrid design at that point.

It becomes interesting to ponder - is it better to have a built-in transformer that is matched to the rest of the phono stage design, or to select an outboard transformer that is a closer match to your cartridge? I'd cheat and say both.

 

My VK-p5 with factory upgrades has right at 60 db of gain, no transformer, all tube signal path. I ran my OC9 ML II with .4 mv out without an SUT.

 

Sure, it's possible. Looks like the way BAT did it was by using 8 signal tubes, maybe? I guess that's one way. These things come in flavors, that's not my preferred flavor.

Note also that I'm a huge OC9 ML II fan, but it doesn't strike me as the sort of cartridge I'd insist on a SUT with. I always used it with active MC stages.

 

Yes, the BAT has 4 signal tubes per channel. The OC9 sounds quite good both ways. At first I thought I liked it better with the SUT, then I went direct to the P5 and thought that was better. Then I went to a SoundSmith Aida with 2.12 mv output and it really sings with the P5.

 

I just went the opposite direction. I had a Manley Steelhead for a few years and it was great, but I buy and spin less vinyl than I used to. So I sold it, picked up a P-75 for $350, and couldn't be happier. To my ears the Dynavector in Dr. T mode can do 95% of what the Steelhead can do. I hear maybe a little less air around instruments but that's about it. It sounds a bit softer than the P-75, but I kind of like some sizzle with my analog sound.

I do miss the Steelhead for mono records. It is killer in that regard, takes away stereo noise even with a stereo cart. But other than that I don't feel like I'm missing out on anything. I certainly don't feel like it was worth 10x the price of the Dyna, especially when it takes up 10x the space of the P-75..

 

I'd guess he meant for LOMC use. I have a couple of "tube" phono's with 60 dB and 65 dB gain that I'v used straight out with a LOMC cart. Then, I tried the same cart with a head amp (Hagerman Piccolo) plus the same phono, but at 40 dB gain - the result is much quieter and sweeter sound, better overall than the same phono at 65 dB. Based on that experience alone, I would tend to agree with the above statement, and myself would prefer a step-up device plus lower-gain phono as opposed to high-gain phono alone. However, obviously I haven't heard your phono, or other, better phono's out there. Perhaps there are units out there that are really quiet at 65 db gain, so YMMV.

 

That's great that you're satisfied with the Dynavector P-75. I was too for a while, especially when I was using it with a Dynavector 20xl cart. There was obviously a synergy there and both the cart and the phono stage were at the same quality level. It was when I got a Lyra Delos when the shortcomings of the P-75 became evident and the step up to a higher quality phono stage made a big difference.

 

Mike,

 

I can get an Adagio if anyone wants one new

 

I went from a $200 Parasound phonostage to a Manley Chinook...I thought that was a gigantic leap, but then I heard the Manley Steelhead...wow!!

 

I had Hagerman's Cornet 2 modestly upgraded with Auricaps. I saved my upgrade money for vintage tubes.

And did it sing with mid 1950's Amperex or Mullard tubes!

But I had to find out how much farther I could get.... and I signed up for his Trumpet.

There is no contest. The Cornet is a thrill ride. But the Trumpet plays far deeper and more solidly yet with superior detail and decay.

And it should considering the price Delta. The Trumpet a Classic with a full set of early 1950's Mullard tubes is $5800.

 

This one looks promising with the options it offers but I'm guessing it would be more than 4k in USA, it costs 3750€ in Europe.

melto2 | lab12

 

Is this still available?

 

I'm thinking of going from the Musical Surroundings Phonomena II+ (ss) to the Herron VTPH-2A (tubes). I really like the MS phono II+ but very curious to know if I'm missing out not going with something more substantial like the Herron. Can anyone tell me what to expect from this upgrade?

Rest of my system is: Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II - tubes rolled from stock JJs to Gold Lion 12AX7 and 12AU7s with a Brimer 12AU7 in the center position. With running the Phonomena II+ preamp, I'm not sure if I'm even utilizing the tubes anymore? I upgraded the Phonomena to accommodate the Hana SL Moving Coil cartridge I have. I love this cart! My turntable is a Clear Audio Concept table and the speakers are B&W 805d3 stand mounts with a REL T9i sub.

Thx!

 

Good upgrade. Herron is very nice. Tube rolling is mostly about adjusting gain so save your $$$. Yes, I have one, and a Tavish Classic + PH16 along with a few DIY stages.

 

I also had a MS pre and that was quite nice for the $$.

 

Don't have much to add here, but I'm currently lusting for two tube phonos, the above mentioned Herron VTPH-2A, and the Luxman EQ-500: EQ-500 | PHONO AMPLIFIERS | PRODUCTS | LUXMAN | Seeking higher sound quality I run all balanced, so the Luxman makes sense for my system. Look at that thing! It just looks like it sounds great. Might drive myself crazy with OCD tube rolling with a tube phono though, so I'll stick with my SS Pass XP15... for ummm, maybe another year.

 

I'm not very experienced with many phono stages so I wouldn't know. I mean, it wasn't long ago (before upgrading my turntabl) that I was using an old cheap Rotel phono stage.

But in my case, when I upgraded to a Transrotor turntable and wanted to upgrade my phono stage, I felt I already had enough tubes in the chain with my CJ Premier 16LS2 preamp and CJ Premier 12 tube monoblock amps. I ended up buying an JE Audio HP10 phono stage, which does employ a tube but not "euphonically" in the circuit. It's essentially solid state. Since I upgrade both the turntable and phono stage at the same time, I don't exactly know the contribution of the phono stage, but everything sure sounds amazing. One of the best things about the new phono stage is that all manner of adjustments - gain, impedance etc - are all easily adjustable by buttons on the front panel. I love having those available as I like certain sonic aspects of changing the impedance and it's easy to do so, depending on mood.

 

Yeah that Luxman is gorgeous! Too bad id doesn't come in black. I wonder if it's as quiet as the Herron is supposed to be. Tube rolling is fun but I do wonder if it's a beneficial as people claim it to be. I think I was able to achieve a different sound when i was using the pre in the CM II but since adding the MS pre, I think I'm bypassing those tubes currently? Not sure how that works exactly. The Herron is pretty great looking too in my opinion. But then again, I love well designed products and aesthetics matter. The Luxman is beautiful but no black is a deal breaker for me, unfortunately.

 

How do you like the Lyra Delos? Thinking of upgrading from the Hana SL. Thx

 

Hopefully picking an Art Audio Vinyl one ( Defenitive audio version) on Saturday, this will be my first high end phono amp so am looking forward to it.