History of CBS Records 30th Street Studio NYC (many pictures)

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by DMortensen, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    The trombone player is playing multiple instruments. That isn't a trombone in the first shot. His fingers are clearly playing valves, and the instrument isn't resting on his shoulder. My guess would be trumpet based on the apparent length, but there's really not enough to make a positive ID. Perhaps a cornet.

    Unfortunately, I can't make out a title on the sheet music.
     
  2. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Not clear enough to really see a face, but a bass player is visible in the first shot, immediately to the right of the conductor, somewhat hidden behind a mic stand. You can see a bit of the scroll and some of his head. The right window seen in the close-up is immediately to the left of the conductor, obscured by the trumpet (?)/trombone mic, while the left window seems to be hidden behind the far left screen.
     
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  3. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    [​IMG]
    Above: The man in the polo-style shirt, standing, is playing alto sax. Kind of looks like Jackie McLean, but hard to say.
    Seated, left to right: Trumpet, trumpet, French horn, trumpet*, man in black/dark suit not playing, tuba.
    That's a four-valve euphonium in the case on the floor in the foreground.

    *Sure looks like he is playing trumpet here, but maybe a valve trombone or a flugelhorn. I know he (or somebody who looks like him) is shown playing a slide trombone in another photo, and there is a trombone case to the left of the euphonium.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Art Taylor on drums? (Not sure.)
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
    Wendell Marshall on bass??? Maybe?

    I think they both were in Jazz Messengers at various points, and both played with Donald Byrd, but cannot find a definite connection to the set of instruments pictured in the wide shot, FWIW. May be a wild goose chase. Both did gobs of session work in NYC in the late '50s/early '60s. Could be them.
     
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  4. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Not a valve trombone. We would see it on his left shoulder.
     
  5. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    ....and I think we would also be able to see the bell being farther away from his face. Doesn't look right.
     
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  6. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Nah, sorry, cupcake. That's an M49 and cable in front of him, which together are sort of shaped like a sax, but he's gesturing with empty hands. And Jackie McLean is a black guy, this is definitely a white guy, as shown in the other picture I posted:

    [​IMG]

    This guy looks more like Mort Sahl than Jackie McLean, although I'm not suggesting it's Mort Sahl.

    Frankly, you've restored my faith in the fallibility of humanity, a condition I exhibit frequently as seen here frequently. It's soothing to know you are in my club, at least this time.

    OTOH, I think your ID's of the drummer and bass player are plausible, regardless if that's who they turn out to be or not. The slope of the drummer's shoulders looks the same as Art Taylor, as do the chin and proportions of the face. The bass player on the left seems very young to me, so it's hard to square with the mature picture of Wendell Marshall. Both men's ear, jaw line, chin-to-mouth relationship, and forehead look quite similar, though. I wouldn't be surprised if you hit them right on.

    Those are very good suggestions, despite the one clunker; when combined with your Hugh Downs and Pro Musica work still leave you with an A+ instead of the A++ you had going. IMHO.
     
  7. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Ha! You're right about that cable thing. Looked for all the world like a sax neck! (Thus, the Jackie McLean reference.) Funny...
     
  8. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Possibly only time for one pic; today might be a long day.

    [​IMG]

    Pretty sure this is Bob Waller in the early days of 30th St. Maybe on a day Glenn Gould was going to choose pianos? There are 4 visible. We can see the concave baffles in their usual position; this shot shows how tall they were.

    What I wanted to briefly talk about is that row of things hanging down from the ceiling against the white wall. Those are electrical cords with connectors on the end. Typically they are in theaters to allow quick connection of lights; each cable runs back to a patch panel where they can be routed to dimmers either singly or in groups.

    There are these pigtails hanging down in multiple locations around the room, and I have to think they are there because the place was purchased and remodeled to be a TV studio before they decided to use Liederkranz for that and kept 30th St as an audio recording studio. They are never in use in any pictures or videos.
     
  9. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    The only other possibility that comes to mind is something like a Ferrante & Teicher album, but I think your scenario is more likely.
     
  10. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Well, it could have been Ferrante & Teicher, since they recorded regularly in 30th St, but the fact that we only see one piano and the others are in the background seemed to make it more likely that it was all for a single player, but who knows? Bob's attire looks middle '50's to me, and he certainly looks like a young fellow.

    Today's episode of Mystery Session involves Carlos Surinach, who was a buddy of Fred and Rose's and who was apparently often at their penthouse apartment on the lower Upper East Side based on pictures I've seen. But we'll get to Carlos in a minute.

    The first pictures are of the piano player and a man who I assume is the composer. The index says he's Colin McPhee, but looking for pictures of Colin show someone who I don't think is this person. I believe I've seen Colin in the studio, but this fellow doesn't look like him at all to me.

    [​IMG]

    Does the "New Music" on the sheet music refer to that particular piece as the title or is it more generic than that?

    Here's a better shot of the pianist

    [​IMG]

    There is another picture or two of the other man sitting at the keyboard, but as we'll see (I think) the younger man is the performer.

    And Carlos joins them. Note the shirt.

    [​IMG]

    We can see the blurry old control room in the background, and just above Carlos' head is a man in the producer's area. His posture sure looks like Howard Scott to me. I can't tell if he's bald or not....

    Here's a shot of the rest of the group.

    [​IMG]

    Bassoon, two flutes, and possibly a clarinet close to the conductor, then 3 brass players in back, at least one of whom has a trombone. No other pictures of the back row.

    It looks like the whole ensemble is being picked up by two mics: one near the piano, the other above and behind the conductor to pick up the ensemble. (There's one more stand visible but it doesn't have a mic on it.)

    Finally, another shot of Surinach, part of the front row, the first two mystery men (with the younger man at the keyboard), and a woman whose coiffure is distinctive and who I know I have more and better pictures of, which makes me think she's with Masterworks or something.

    [​IMG]

    Also, and most notable for me, is we get a better view of what I've always assumed was one of the former stained glass windows. The top part is not brick like I think we see later but some kind of church-like pattern, sort of repeated gothic arches. That is the first time I've noticed that pattern.

    So we know it is prior to 1956 based on the diffusors on the walls. Not sure what else to say about this group of pictures, which are from the Plaut Collection at Yale.

    Can you see more?

    The next four days I'll be largely gone so no game shows for a while.
     
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  11. lukpac

    lukpac Senior Member

    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Neat photo, but I don't see how there could have been a window there. That's the south wall of the studio, which was adjacent to the front part of the building; it wasn't an outside wall. That's right where the new control room would be placed in 1962.
     
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  12. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Dmitri Shostakovich? (resemblance....doubtful.....I know he was in NYC in 1949; not sure about after)
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2017
  13. Walter H

    Walter H Santa's Helper

    Location:
    New Hampshire, USA
    It's an issue of New Music Quarterly, founded by Henry Cowell.
     
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  14. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I think that the plaid-shirted conductor is Carlos Surinach; possibly an M-G-M Records recording at 30th Street?

    EDIT: I see that is already in your post, Dan. Sorry!
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  15. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

  16. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Grant Johannesen on piano?
    U-Archives-Utonian-1949-Page-179-Grant-Johannssen-620x324.jpg
     
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  17. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Recording ML 5105, I assume?
     
  18. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Might the composer in question be Roger Sessions, in un-mustachioed mode?
    Sessions.jpg
     
  19. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

  20. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    YES!

    That is sure who it looks like to me!

    Edit: And that's who's in the credits you cite.

    Does that look like Colin McPhee? I guess later in life, although he would have been in his 50's in the studio and not 35 like in the Wikipedia picture.

    Colin McPhee - Wikipedia

    Matt, maybe you could explain for the folks playing along at home how you are able to take a picture and come up with identifying information about who is in them. You really have an extraordinary talent for this.

    Unless it's your secret...
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2017
  21. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    I don't think Colin McPhee is in the photos, but that's a name I had never heard before today, so take that with a big ol' grain of salt, eh?
     
  22. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    Yes, I no longer assume it was a stained glass window. Having that shape and pattern would add to the church-ness of the space, and that must be why it is there.

    I still don't have a handle on how the church was arranged; the studio/church space was wide but not deep (when entering from 30th St through the center door which was removed in the 1947 remodel). I can mentally picture churches that are long and narrow but not short and wide. I was thinking for a while that maybe the entrance was on the side of the church but that seems odd, since latecomers would distract from the service.

    The main entrance was definitely in the middle of the building during its church days. I think.
     
  23. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    No real secret, Dan. I just like to read and dig.
    FWIW, this church was a long-and-skinny church that was hit by an arsonist, then re-built on the same footprint, but at a 90-degree angle, making it a short-and-wide church.

    Maple Park Church « BRC Acoustics & Audiovisual Design
     
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  24. MLutthans

    MLutthans That's my spaghetti, Chewbacca! Staff

    Meh, then again.....could be. I had suggested Roger Sessions because the other piece of music on the LP was a Sessions piece.
    9780252071805.jpg
     
  25. DMortensen

    DMortensen Forum Resident Thread Starter

    Location:
    Seattle, WA USA
    I'm less sure of this.

    Here he is in 1935 at 35 y.0.:

    [​IMG]

    and with Grant Johannesen again (edit: up to 21 years later)

    [​IMG]

    Could be, absent a more front-on view of the mystery man.

    Gotta stop now, though. Thanks again!!!!!
     
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