What a great post Emrys! You really found some interesting stuff I had not read before.. I believe Back in Black was largely if not exclusively Bon Scott material although its hard to discount that Brian probably had a hand in some of it.. I can't imagine him bold faced lying like in the story he tells about how Hells Bells came to be written in that storm... But some of the songs - the lyrics- are so typical Bon.. and so unlike everything else that Brian contributed to later... For those that say that the Young brothers would never have "ripped off" Bon.. my guess is the Young brothers more than made it up to his family.. I seem to recall reading about how they were well taken care of... also I have little doubt that the Young brothers would find it easy to rationalize that since the songs were written during Bon's period of service in the band (and anybody other than the Young brothers was working for them..) they belonged to the band / company whatever you call it... the reason not to give him credit is obvious: to demonstrate the band was a continuing working unit...if they had not given Brian credit then he would have been thought of as merely singing for Bon... and on the next album there would have been the obvious comparisons... Back in Black gave Brian a running start if you will.. It is also important to know that we do not know what financial arrangements the Young brothers struck with Brian on songwriting.. just because he was credited as a songwriter does not necessarily mean he got the same share... in fact for all we know they could have credited Brian and funnelled all the moneys' for his share in songs Bon helped write or wrote the lyrics for to Bon's family in perpetuity..
Most people have no idea at all what it's like to be under immense pressure and in a hungry band that's firing on all cylinders while both reeling from tragedy and reveling in the incredible luck of having chanced upon THE perfect new person, and being supernaturally driven and with everything to prove ..... No, but they certainly understand calling people liars from the safety of their keyboards.
We have to remember this was 1980 and after BIB it was a steady roll into the full-on 80's and Brian's voice was a pioneering harbinger of where metal would go in the decade. Of course their sound was going to change, but I don't think it has anything at all to do with the lyrics.
Back in Black is one of the biggest albums of all time so this would be many millions of dollars. We're to believe they'd use Bon's songs without crediting him but then secretly funnel millions upon millions to his family? Yeah. Okay. Also, about another thing from the "Emrys" post: Pretty much everyone agrees the lyrics got very noticeably worse when the credits became Young/Young. How can that be used as evidence that Brian didn't write what's credited to him, when logically it's among the best evidence that he did?
I don't believe Bon wrote the lyrics for any song on Back In Black. I think Brian had a lot of previous ideas, some great music provided him by the Young's to help with the creative process, and a strong knowledge of AC/DC's lyrical style. But something I think was uniquely Brian, is how three words are rymed instead of just two and many times in the songs. The BiB title track, Shook Me and Shoot to Thrill for sure. Even Rising Power from Flick does it. I also think Brian used similar types of phrases on other albums to the ones on BiB. And sometimes you have a muse and Bon was that inspiration.
You Shook Me is pure Brian, BTW. The whole damn thing is all car metaphors mixed with sex, and Brian was the huge car fanatic
Apparently the Hoffman Forum has been invaded by a bunch of "new members" who are obviously all attack drones from the "Bon is God, Brian stole his lyrics and said he wrote 'em hisself" fan club...
Well you could always try to answer some of the questions I raised, how about Angus' quote from Rolling stone?
I have made one suggestion why they have done this and what do you think Angus meant by this? Angus: The only time was when Bon died. We were in doubt about what to do but we had songs that he had written and wanted to finish the songs.
Thanks Hutch, I am not saying that Brian had no input into BIB, but in my opinion it is mostly the work of Bon. I would also like to add that I am a big ACDC fan and my first ever gig as a seventeen year old . was AC/DC on the BIB tour at the Deeside Leisure centre, near Liverpool in the UK. Other posters may disagree, but these are only my opinions backed by material found on other websites on the subject.
The Rolling Stone quote apparently is in a 1998 issue of the Australian edition of the Rolling Stone magazine with an interview with angus young, on page 90 .
I think looking at printed lyrics of both Bon and Brian, it's clear Brian wrote the BIB lyrics. The structures are so similar to his lyrics that came after and bear little similarity to Bon's work. This isn't about what songs you like or don't like or what you think are bad lyrics or what are good lyrics. It's about style and structure. Since both guys were writing for AC/DC, subject matter was consistent. Brian tends to consistently string words together for effect but not in full, coherent sentences even though the words might sing like a full sentence or have that effect: "Like a fever Burning faster You spark the fire in me Crazy feelings Got me reeling They got me raising steam" Or: "Magazines, wet dreams, dirty women on machines for me Big licks, skin flicks, tricky dick's are my chemistry" That's classic Brian: using words and their collective meanings to create an impression but without necessarily saying something straight out. And he does this over and over through the years. "She's like a lethal brand Too much for any man She gives me first degree She really satisfies me" And that's classic Bon! Similar, sure, but he tended to be more literal. Not enough here to win any case in court, but I'm just point out what I see as considerable and consistent difference in Bon and Brian's lyrical style that can be examined further by whoever cares to.
I've always found it hard to believe the lead vocalist and a major contributor dies and then we get something like Back in Black. However it happened, I'm just glad it did. It's from my time, but still, the best thing they ever did IMO. Only the band and Bon's ghost know for sure. My guess is, much of this album was already conceived before his death but not yet "in the can".
Mutt Lange would also know as well at Tony Platt and whoever else was around during the recording, as well as intimates of the band members likely. There would have either been written lyrics or recorded demos of the songs otherwise how would Brian have known what words to steal? Where are these lyrics or demos? Taken as a "case" there is literally zero evidence of this.
I'm sure I read an interview with Angus years ago where he said Bon had written lyrics but they were locked away in a safe and hadn't been looked at since he died.
Is that an actual quote? From where? Said to whom? Change that "he" to a "we" and it's a whole 'nother thing. I've seen so-called quotes attributed to "people" saying Bon told them that Back in Black was the LP that was going to put them over the top. Pretty strange since his death had a lot to do with the actual title. How did he know the name of the album? Hmm. I've heard actual audio from the band members (there's even a making of BiB documentary) about the songs, their genesis, and the recording. Frankly, I'm not all that impressed by what the "internet" thinks or says, or of guys trying to sell unauthorized bios, or get more hits on their blog, or of guys trying to puff up Bon's already legendary status at the expense of others. I prefer to let actual facts speak for themselves. And "new members". Is this some sort of hobby, going from forum to forum trying to convince people that Bon wrote BiB? Pretty weird. A strange agenda. Bon was great. He's dead. At least it's more tolerable than the folks saying we didn't go to the moon.
You find it hard to believe that great things can be born out of tragedy? It happens. BiB is just one example.
So, we don't know this, we don't know that, and there's no real proof. So instead, let's ignore what the band has said about the making of BiB and instead concoct our own conspiracy theory based on "guessing" because it's what we want to believe is true. Unreal. Critical thinking is truly a lost art.
The problem comes up though with lyrics. Previous lyrics including the songs on Highway To Hell tended to be very Bon-tongue and cheek. The lyrics on BIB are very satanic, a total change in a artistic lyricism. Bon would have not gone down that road, but the band did....... Not getting religious here at all But the songs DID change Dramatically to the dark side if you will. I can't see Bon, in all fairness coming up with a lyric like 'If your Into Evil your a friend of mine'. Just not seeing that. So maybe the Robert Johnson myth is real after all. The beave
I've no idea whether Bon wrote the lyrics however, those thinking that you don't often become a total "non person" the moment you are no longer in a band, for whatever reason, really do need to get real. Bands themselves might not be ruthless, their management nearly always are and they will dot every i and cross every last T to keep a band completely "in house". Often , the band themselves aren't even aware of what they are signing, or if they are, it will only be those members considered "core" who are consulted. They will just be told that it's "legal Housekeeping that has to be done". From personal experience, there's every chance Bon's contract with the management stipulated whilst a member of AC/DC that, unless cleared by the management and the Young bros that, everything he wrote "belonged" to AC/DC. That is, if the mythical notebook does exist then it would have become the property in their eyes at least and all it contained, of the Young Brothers and the management the moment Bon died. Plus, all BJ would have had to do to cop a co-writing credit would be , change phrase here, a few words there and Robert's your Mother's brother.
I think the whole theory unravels when the actual lyrics are examined and as it is, the whole thing seems to be based upon the album being a huge success and not because the lyrics sound like Bon. That's why you don't hear people accusing Brian of stealing Bon's lyrics for Fly On The Wall, though I have heard fans cry theft for specific later songs because they happen to like the lyrics.
I wish somebody would call up the academic people who use computers to study the words and language and prove the authenticity/origins of texts like Shakespeare or the Declaration of Independence....would love to see an outlandish, Watson-style computer study of the collected lyrics of the Bon era, and then plug in the Brian Johnson era, for comparison...and then plug in Back In Black, and ask the computer to compare the raw words and language. I have no official opinion, but on the same wavelength of "is this work Shakespeare, or isn't it?" -- there are certain things on Back In Black, like "Shoot To Thrill" that just sound and feel like Bon Scott, almost to the bone, innately, the same way that the title phrase "Tomorrow Never Knows" totally sounds like Ringo, if you are a big Beatles fan and you really "know" Ringo well. To a deeply-absorbed Beatles fan, it just sounds like it came straight from Ringo's mouth, into Lennon's ear, who was keen on its mix of lilting sarcasm and corniness, and you just sense intuitively it isn't a John Lennon-invented title at all. Same way that a keen Beatles musicologist can break down a lot of the "who wrote what" of Lennon-McCartney songs and intuitively figure out Lennon wrote this verse, this line is McCartney, this part was probably both together, this one piece of the song is strangely different from the rest of it... It also gets murky because Angus and Malcolm were already writing lyrics and contributing titles/concepts, even before Bon died. If you know them and the band well, the phrase "What Do You Do For Money Honey' could really have come from any of them, including George or even Vanda or someplace else. This also happens in other bands -- sometimes Mick would write a better "Keith" song or riff than Keith actually would, like "Brown Sugar".... Just because he knows the music and musicians inside out. BUT there are a lot of curious or "interesting" things to Back In Black -- the way that the vocal line on "Shoot To Thrill" resolves, with so many 7ths (the vocal line ending up centered on G instead of an A, just under the main note). It's a pun, and Bon loved puns, and just on vocalization alone, the vocal lines and inflections and "beats" within each line, are very much shaped like the way Bon Scott lines were shaped. Some of the others too. "Rock And Roll Ain't Noise Pollution" -- that just sounds like something Bon Scott would come up with. By comparison, you move over to something like "Who Made Who" or "Sink The Pink" and it is very obviously a completely totally different lyrics writer. Word choices are different, beats or pauses within lines are different, the puns or hidden jokes are a different character. There's not much similarity at all. But I do not think we will ever know. I just enjoy the music!
well to be fair Emrys posted a bunch of stuff which you are conveniently ignoring... there's also the fact that I'm a huge AC/DC fan both before and after Bon. ... there's also the fact of the HUGE dropoff after Back in Black... maybe some people think the stuff in Back in Black sounds lyrically like Sink the Pink but I don't think so we are truly to believe Bon was in the studio with AC/DC and working on songs on the road and NOTHING was used .. they went in cold and started from scratch and in a couple of weeks knocked it out? but then they couldn't do it again EVER and even relieved Brian Johnson of writing lyrics cause they thought they could do it better? THey did no work between records? they never talked about ideas between records? To me that simply seems unrealistic.. we know for example that they titled their live album If You Want Blood but only subsequenly the song came out... usually in bands songs have a gestation period.. ideas first tried out in year 1 sometimes take many years.. but we are to believe nothing Bon did had anything to do with Back in Black.. to me that beggars belief... also, again, if Brian was capable of writing the lyrics on Back in Black which are great.. well, what happened???
