How much time do you spend on a needle drop?

I'm interested to know how much time you spend on an LP. We're talking averages here, since some albums might need more declicking than others.

Sometimes I feel like I should just stop it and buy the damn CD.

 

Since I upgraded to a fast computer, it takes me less than half the time to do a needle drop, including cleaning up and "mastering".

Between life and work, it used to take me three days. Now, it can take just a few hours, depending on the severity of the noise, and how much I care.

 

What are your computer specs? I'm running an AMD Athlon XP 1800+ with a measly 256 MB of RAM. It's not slowing me down, except when loading WAV files or redrawing the waveform.

 

4-5 hours is usually the minimum for me from start to finish.

 

I run a Pentium 4 2.4c (Hyper-threading) chip
Intel 865PERL mobo with 512 (two 256 sticks of DDR 3200 RAM, one in each channel)
ATI Raedon video card with 32 DDR RAM.
7200 RPM 200GB ATA HD space
Windows XP SP1
Adobe Audition
Screen resolution is 800x600

If you run Cool Edit Pro or Audition, you can adjust your redrawing time. I also run Sound Forge 6.0, which is instantaneous! Lightning fast!

 

Depends on the needle drop here. Sometimes I just want an LP on disc, and just record it right to the CD recorder. Otherwise, it can take an hour or two (including recording time) up to a couple of weeks (if I'm plowed with work and I'm doing a very careful restoration).

 

If I work at 88.1 or 96k, it takes considerably longer. If I work at 16-bit, 44.1, I can get things done in just over an hour!

 

Yeah, it depends. I usually play the original wet straight through to the card w/the Carey phono stage. Both sides are done in one sitting. Then it's off to editing and very gentle click removal at "problem" spots. Usually takes me an hour per 2 sides.

I just got done doing a record that was done at Gold Star for someone. Flash Cadillac & The Continental Kids on Epic. Stan Ross produced it*, had "Muleskinner Blues" and a few others. Might have been 1969-1971. Came out sounding really good!

 

A really clean LP I can finish over a couple days. Something a little rougher may take a week to ten days. I usually only work on a song or two each session.

 

Sckott,

You play the record wet? You mean like water wet?

 

If the record is in difficult shape, even though it looks mint and cleanings only do so much, there are times where playing an old record wet works just fine.

But if it's a record that sounds perfectly quiet and doesn't even need cleaning, no - I wouldn't wet it.

With that Cadillac record I did last week, I did. Tried someone's vaccum, no better. Played it wet. Almost perfect.

 

Cool, that's good advice. Is just a thin layer of distilled water good enough or do you totally saturate?

 

Distilled works fine. I even fill a D4+ bottle of distilled and have it whenever I need it. Depending on your evaporation, you MAY need to soak it so it can run for 25 minutes without going dry.

After both sides are done, re-clean and dry the record properly. Again, only do it on those nasties. I've done drops on perfectly good records and did basically nothing but run it straight.

 

I recorded a wet record once... I used a little disposable plastic dropper and applied the water as it was playing (usually an inch ahead of the needle). It came out well... although I did read somewhere (this forum, I think) that if you play a record wet, that record will only sound good when played wet. I'm not sure about that, but it's something to consider.

 

As with everything else in life, the time gets shorter as your experience gets higher. One thing that prolongs the process is when you think you are finished, go to a real audio system and play the result, and think - damn, I should have done this and that. At that point, it's back to the drawing board. That's why I always save my "As Recorded" files until I am absolutely sure I am done.

 

I usually clean several lp's at time, let's say 4 lp's... then I record them, a side at a time,and then save them, to be worked on at a later date. I tend listen to the lp as it's playing, and mark down in my little black book the songs that need more love than others, then I will reverse the whole lp side, and apply a light declicking while it's a reversed wav file. After it's been lightly declicked ( if need be ) I reverse the file (lp side)back to normal, then save it.
Then I break that side back into individual songs, and after each song is it's own file
I will re-listen to it, and decide if further love is needed, All in All , I suppose the time per lp side varies...but usually 1 1/2 to 2 hours per side... then it goes to the second hard drive , where all my music is...my own juke box lol
As more sides are done, the more I learn , the fun thing is, I mainly just do lp's, and as such, there are bargains awaiting me, around every corner . . . Happy Recording

PS. . . As Grant has stated, if working in the higher bit rates and higher hz rates, it does take longer, also, since my computer is hooked up to my HT Amp via toslink, I can listen to the higher bit rates as is... WoW so dynamic sounding < deep sigh >

Stephen

 

LowRideDuh, what does reversing accomplish for you?

 

I'd be interested in hearing more about this technique too.

Who's doing 96kHz? Can you hear the difference when it finally gets to CD?

 

I have been doing 96k, but you have to yose really good sample-rate conversion. I can hear the difference in my CD-Rs.

 

How's the sample rate conversion in Sound Forge. I think you were telling me how lame their bitrate conversion is.....

 

Rick , Keith , from what I have read, and more importantly, My Ears , here's the info I got ... both pops and clicks have a certain look in a wav form ( I noticed this while doing manual removal ) and by reversing the song, I run my pop and click filter while the song is reversed, it's sounds kinda funny, but it works , I don't have to be as aggressive with my filter settings, when I'm doing it reversed it seems to me ('course , I could be crazy lol ...that's a different thread ...tho lol )
Once I have filtered the song in reverse, I return the song to it's normal running state, I then save it as a source file, and do further work on it from there, if it needs it.
I was told that from a mathematical perspective, the filter (algorithm ) attacks the pops and clicks form a different perspective, because the pops and clicks reversed look
or have different characteristics . . . I am not sure that I'm communicating this the way I want to... Soooo , I hope that this helps.

Stephen

PS... I have done a test here at home, using the same song, doing it both ways....reversed, and not reversed, and to my ears, I liked the reversed way the best...with that said, it's just a matter of habit for me now...after recording the song I reverse it and de-click and de-pop it...if it needs it.

 

Reversing the file for declicking never worked for me.

 

SF does better with SRC than with dither.

 

I have an M-Audio Revolution 7.1 sound card, 24 bit. Since I've had this card ('bout a year now), I record with Cool Edit Pro at 32-bit/96000. I've been told this gives me a "24-bit" recording. Ever since I moved up from a straight 16-bit recording, and no "fade to black", this has about tripled the length of time it takes me to properly master an LP to the computer.

Here is my process. Prior to step 1, if I really feel the LP will benefit from a cleaning, I take it over to Loyalty Sound and use their VPI machine.

1. Side 1 and Side 2 of the LP are recorded in CEP, 32-bit/96000. I record each side as one wav file. If the album is really short as with some early Beatles LPs, I make it one wav file. Like Rudy, that's pretty much all I'll do in the first sitting.

1b. If there are any bonus tracks I'm adding, I try and record these at the same sitting.

2. At the next sitting I begin separating the songs one at a time. Mark and cut the song from the large wav file, then open a new file and paste the song into it. (I may only work on 3 or 4 songs at each sitting).

3. From there I begin any level adjustments, declicking, ending with a fade to black. Then I save the individual file. Also if needed I first convert the song to stereo, if it was recorded in mono, as for some reason I can't hear the song in mono at 32-bit. The file is there, however the audio is all muffled and ****. (This does not happen when I record, in mono at 16-bit).

4. When all the songs have been separated and cleaned up, then begins the process of converting to 16-bit wav files. Conversion takes anywhere from 1.5 to 3 minutes per song. This may not begin until another sitting.

5. When the files are ready, I burn a test CD-R.

6. The disc is played back in my vehicle and on my main system a couple of times to see if I missed removing any clicks, pops, noise, etc.

7. If needed, I return to the master 32-bit file(s) and re-clean it/them.

8. Then I convert the file(s) again, to 16-bit/44100 and re-burn the CD-R.

9. Later on, I will burn the 32-bit files to a CD-R, along with the 16-bit files for the archives. It's amazing how fast one can fill up an 80GB hard drive. Currently I'm at 79GB. The "My Music" folder is using 67.1GB. I have some serious archiving to do in the next while.

On occasion, I will send out a test copy of the CD-R for an independent listen. Sometimes if you get too close to a recording, you may miss something. A second pair of ears was helpful with my Die Beatles CD-R last year. A couple of things were caught that I didn't hear. I went back to the drawing board on that one 3 times, before I got it right.

Also I may come to the Music Corner or Audio Hardware discussion forums after I've completed a needle drop, with a question or two. Depending on the answer, I may have to go back to the project and fix something. This is currently the case with The Complete Help! Sessions CD-R I needled dropped over the past week. Turns out I need to swap out the version of "I'm Down". I used a remixed or slightly narrow stereo version and will be replacing it with the proper stereo version from Past Masters Volume 1.

And that's it. Whew! ... Oh, wait. Then there's the CD-R label and art work. Can you say another couple of hours with Adobe Photoshop, Epson scanner, Sure Thing CD Labeler, etc.

In total, recording 32-bit, cleaning the files, converting to 16-bit and burning the music to CD-R takes about 3-4 hours. With straight 16-bit recording, it takes about 1 to 1.5 hours. I haven't used 16-bit since a Forum member told me last year that when you make any changes to a 16-bit file, such as declicking, fade to black, and then save it, the file at that point may only be 12-bits.

 

I record LP's straight to my Pioneer home audio CD recorder, through the analog stage.

I can do it sometimes in pretty much the time it takes to play the LP, IF I don't screw it up. Not as easy as burning as CD copy obviously, 'cause the track numbers have to be entered manually of course.

But if all goes well, really not a whole lot of time as long as I'm needle dropping one record.

Compilations, well that's another story. More time involved with level settings etc.