I need a good subwoofer to review, what are your favorites? Help me!

Seems to me a servo controlled sub should be more controlled. But this product like almost all others are "cubes". What full range speaker is designed like a cube, that extends down to the lowest octave, and sounds good? None that I can think of.

Why are subs designed with small cabinets, and why are they cubes?

The cube will ring like a bell, the air space inside resonates, hence "one note bass" as I say as a major criticism of how the typical sub "sounds". Even as the internal resonance may be outside the sub's range, the harmonic will still ring.. or tends to.

 

I am using Seaton subwoofer in my setup. I like it a lot. Better than my SVS ported sub and my JL Audio d110. But, Seaton is a small one man shop kind of operation. Response to inquiries could be very slow. I had issues with my amp and I got no response from him after a few requests for response. I ended working with the amp manufacturer directly to get my amp fixed.

So no, I would not recommend Seaton for our forum members.

I seconds others recommendations for JL Audio and SVS.

 

Bang for the buck think I think it might be imposible to beat the Dayton RSS460HO-4 18 driver housed in quality ported enclosure. The only prefabricated one I know of is this:
Denovo Audio Stonehenge 18" Ported Subwoofer Cabinet

Guessing total cost for 2 would be around $1300 (delivered to USA).

There's a lot of info on web re making "marty" enclosures (either designed or particularly well suited for this dayton driver), ranging from 3.75 - 11 cf. Micromarty, martycube, minimarty, full marty.
I own 2 "martycubes", and they are simply amazing.

 

Hah!! I didn't mention JTR because I was anticipating that once I mentioned Seaton someone would chime in with JTR.
Thanks.
I've never heard JTR's so I can't comment but they have as dedicated a following as any sub brand.

As far as HT vs. Music, I look at Subs the same way I look at Speakers.
Accurate is accurate, dynamic is dynamic.
Most all music except perhaps the genres that heavily employ electronics, synths don't go nearly as deep and sustained deep as soundtracks.
Ideally in any situation, 2 Subs are the least you need to avoid the pitfalls of room nodes\nulls etc.

 

The only one I have ever owned was SVS which was part of a home theater system.

Unbelievable performance for the money.

 

I own a JL Audio f113 Fathom. It has been relegated to HT/LFE exclusively - simply because of how it loads the room. It is fast, articulate, disappears when not called upon, and quite Musical....

...but I have a problem wall. My house has a "built-in" entertainment wall (for shelves or other similar) where one end projects into the room about 2 feet by 1 foot, from floor to ceiling (10'). The dry wall is anchored to the wood frame only at the edges (I tell people to picture it as a drum head like Tympani). At certain frequencies above a certain volume, the drywall panel excites. With the JL Sub.

Not with my OB - it loads the room differently. That's why I recommend it for 2 channel/Music systems.

 

A speaker cabinet's size is dictated by a driver's Thiele/Small parameters. Ported typically larger than sealed. Cubed/retangular due to ease of construction. Cheaper too. And no need for something much fancier than that, as a woofer couples better to a room, the closer it is to room boundaries. So, as long as a decent cabinet is used, with a good crossover design, allowing for easy adjustments, getting good sub bass doesn't have to get too complicated. At least until people get involved, and try to screw it up, by adjusting for boom and not accuracy.

 

Sub (with really deep bass) must move much air. The case must be very solid. If not, you don‘t get accuracy, even the drivers are good.

By the way... my favorite sub is Magico‘s Q Sub. Unbelievable clear sound!

 

I just remembered another sub that was really impressive in dealer's place. The Paradigm Sub 1. Paradigm® | SUB 1 | Specifications .

 

With these SVS subs, the driver is good, the amp is good, the cabinet isn't so good. So when get some free time, I'm going to attach 3/4 particleboard to the sides. For a cost no object sub, SVS makes the SB16 ultra at $2,000.

SB16-Ultra

 

I was prepared to shell out the dough for an REL sub a few months ago, but the local REL dealer (non-owner salesman) told me I'd be better off going with HSU Research or SVS. However, I'm rooting for Rythmik, as it appears to me that they've attempted to address all the fundamentals of a musical sub, and for a reasonable price.

 

I have two small, sealed SVS subs in my small room. They have everything I need for room integration and coupled with mains with advertised -3 dB down at 32 hz specs, they are seamless crossed over around 42-45 hz. No bloom, no bloat, just musical, punchy, forceful performance. Room does have a corner chunk trap though. Best part is the pair was less than $800 otd. They're running the same sale right now as well.

 

I would also suggest subs from Rythmik. I have two F12SEs and find that they're excellent for both music and home theater use. The owner of Rythmik Brian Ding is great and will quite often answer product inquiries via email or over the phone.

Rythmik Audio • Direct Servo subwoofer products

 

Are the recommendations for subs with integrated DSP, which can't be by-passed? I was assuming Class D amplification, but is the BASH type preferable?

A good number of the top names in speaker design have a sub for nearly each speaker line.

Focal
KEF
Revel
ELAC

SVS and REL are brands that always pop up. JL Audio as well.

Would it be wrong to think, at least up front, that the best full range speaker designers have an edge with subs?

How does THIS sub at $7,000 fair against an SVS, for example? What are the design differences?

 

I could see the full range companies excelling at matching subs to their own branded mains but I don't think there is any arguing that REL and JL are at least near, if not the top. I'm not sure about REL but JL only makes full range speakers for cars and boats .They do have decades of subwoofer innovation behind them which, to me, is more important than being a full range marque as the two products are vastly different.

 

Yes. The KEF ref sub is a toy compared to a JL Audio Fathom F212 v2 Subwoofer. Subwoofer design and engineering is a specialized field and the typical quality full range speaker manufacturer would have to source (buy) their internal amplification and integration components. Some subwoofer manufacturers also do this.
One reason why JL Audio is so successful and growing is that they design and manufacture their own amplifiers, crossovers and integration control components. They have been doing this since 1975 getting their start in the mobile audio world. Their subwoofer drivers can take a pounding and are bullet proof. Their class D amplifiers (full range and subwoofer) have been the class of the mobile audio industry for decades. Design integration of the amp, subwoofer, enclosure and controls under one roof pays sonic dividends.
Get a chance to listen to the Fathom subs at a dealer if you can. Heads and shoulders above any subwoofer I have ever heard except the Gotham. No buzz, no peaks, no resonance, just clean, forcefully powerful extremely deep accurate sounding bass. The really low notes are simply spectacular sounding.

 

How bout this bad boy? If it doesn't work out you can always use it as an end table.

C4 Sub | ATC Loudspeakers

 

I'm curious about this. How about an extreme example: THOR's HAMMER

Is there a design shortcoming in the Wilson sub compared to REL or JL or SVS or Rythmic? Versus KEFs top sub? Or Focal's?

 

You may be correct, but the likes of Andrew Jones, for example, have quite of bit of experience satisfying audiophiles for decades. Is the stand alone sub-woofer design so specialized that JL is truly on a different level? I don't have much regard for mobile (car) audio.

 

What purpose does the extreme example serve? That with 21k you can get a good sub? I don't care if it's made by Campbell's Soup, it's probably going to be decent with that much money thrown at it.

My experience is from back when I used to sell Hifi. Subs from NHT, DCM, Monitor Audio and Energy were the main brands we sold from full-line product manfucaturers. Since then I've had HSu and SVS subs in my own home and I want for nothing in terms of flexibility toward integration or for musical immersion and accuracy. I've not had the budget for a JL Audio but if I did, I have absolutely no doubt it would be stunning.

Not saying full-line manufacturer subs are duds, not by any stretch. But I like it when a company focuses on one specific type of product. This is why I have a turntable from George Merrill, a phono preamp from Keith Herron, and amplification from Odyssey. Rational or not, I feel that type of focus just oozes out of the sound coming from the product, but it's not a broad opinion I throw out everywhere just because.

I will say that the new SVS and almost all JL Audio offerings have excellent tools for integrating their subs into systems. That is a big help to the novice hobbyist who just wants things to sound good, but doesn't have the knowledge or tools to do it properly with measurements, if that makes sense. I can't speak to how much that happens with Focal, Wilson, etc... I am aware Elac has really delivered on this recently, or at least that's my understanding.

Edit - also, now that SVS makes all different sorts of loudspeakers, I'm not sure they really fit into the "subwoofer-focused group" like JL and/or REL.

 

Design principal and construction. It's a fair and valid consideration for Steve. Why pass up ELACs new sub for JLs? What of KEF? These are valid questions. The Wilson example is simply to point out that there is an uber hi end offering. Is it well designed? Is it designed more like a JL or ELAC or is it irrelevant?

 

Mobile is a very specialize field because the typical car interior is a literal nightmare of a "room" to negotiate. When done right by people that know what they are doing the results are phenomenal and on par with home high end audio.

 

It's a great sub. As I said I have listened to Magico's Q Sub and it leaves everything from REL etc incl Thor's Hammer in the dust. The bass playback is so clean without any distortion, that's unbelievable. No rumble of the box...... only bass!

 

Do you have some evidence that JL, SVS, or what have you are constructed poorly? I don't understand why you're pushing this line unless you have some evidence you're not putting forward.

Why would I pass on Elac in favor of JL? Heritage, 40 years of experience that comes with making everything from the spider and voice coil to the cone and basket, understanding enclosures as well as anyone, and the technology they employ for room integration is exceptional. Why did I choose SVS? Trade-up program, excellent service, great reviews, and I made the right decision. I don't want for anything more, until I have a larger room to stick my stereo in.

 

Step 1: Pick the correct sub. I'd recommend something from SVS; they're excellent. I'm currently using dual SB-16 Ultras and I can't imagine wanting better sound quality. I've heard most of their sealed range of subs and they are all excellent depending on room size.

Step 2: Purchase 2 of those subs or step down to a more affordable model so that you can afford 2 subs within budget. After comparing/contrasting dual vs. single subs in many configurations, I will never go back to a single sub. This isn't about volume, it's about creating clean, clear, and accurate low frequencies that are able to represent a transparent soundstage.

Step 3: Properly place the subs in the room. There are countless articles that explain this.

Step 4: Tune the sub (preferably with room correction software like Audyssey MultEQ XT32 + SubEQ). This dramatically improves performance of any subwoofer and I personally think is a requirement.

Step4a Notes: Ideally, connect each sub to a discrete subwoofer pre-out so that the room correction software can separately tune each sub. Also, make sure at the beginning of running any room correction software that you set your sub to output at 80db through the sub's volume adjustment (some room correction will suggest 75db which is too low for the software to work in my experience).

Step 5: After calibration, adjust the crossover points for your front full range speakers to to somewhere around 80Hz; I've almost always found 80Hz to be perfect for my b&w towers (yes, they go much lower, but this is creates the most transparent soundstage). Bookshelf speakers can benefit from a 90-120Hz crossover and towers with active built-in subs can sometimes (rarely) benefit from a 40Hz to 60Hz crossover.

Step 6: Measure the output if you have equipment to do so and tune the volume of the subs to match your front channel speakers for a flat frequency response. My room correction would regularly tune my subs down a couple db too low and I could see this with a mic.