Integrated amp with surround sound?

I recommend the Denon AVR 3802. Older but very nice. You can probably find one used for not much.

 

In my OP I say that I don't like the complexity of AVR and I am looking for an integrated amp with surround processing built in. So people recommend to me AVRs.

And btw, a 'receiver' is made up of three sections...a radio tuner, a pre-amp and a power amp. Any surround circuitry does not make an integrated amp into standard definition of a 'receiver'.

 

Both of the CD players in my profile are multichannel output devices, the difference between the two is that only one plays SACD. (I believe I have the description swapped in my profile.) Anyway, either will plug straight into the Denon above. For HT, I have 2 fronts, 2 side, 2 rear, center and sub.

As far as operational complexity, it's quite easy when you use a multi channel input: you set the Denon for EXT_IN and what comes in is essentially what goes out, no need to bother with its various surround sound processor modes which try to create surround sound from stereo in.

The only issue with this setup is no blu-Ray... (Which actually isn't an issue for me at all)

EDIT: to play either a DVDs or an SACD or a DVD-A, one button: the power button. No need to touch anything else other than volume. I don't even use the remote.

 

Denon AVR 3802 7.1 Channel 150 Watt Receiver | eBay $80-200

 

Like many other abbreviations/acronyms, the letter combination can stand for many things in many contexts. Around here, it can stand for Audio Return Channel, Audio Rate Control or, in this case, Anthem Room Correction.

 

Whether you are using a modern AV receiver or a separate processor, you will still have the same controls. This means the same learning curve with regard to the multi-channel decoding controls.

When I bought the Marantz AVR, shown in the above post, it had the largest instruction manual that I have ever seen, with an audio product, it might give War and Peace a run.

Eric, I am with you on the "feature shock" and learning curve, which I encountered, when I bought my Emotiva IMC-1. As you say, once you put your nose to the grindstone and assimilate everything into your brain, your OK.

Of course, if the OP does want a more simple solution, he can buy an early 90's AV receiver with Pro-Logic matrix surround sound and use surround sound encoded VHS tapes.

Separate processors and AVR receivers, have come a long way, in just the past few years, both in their feature set and dramatic reductions in price.

AVR's in the $200-$600 price range, are found in abundance, in the big box stores.

Just prior to Emotiva coming out with their UMC-1, priced at $600, processors were considered to be an expensive separate device aimed at the videophile market and costing several thousands of dollars. If you go back and read the reviews of the UMC-1, when it first came out, it sorta made history by packing features, previously found in a $2,ooo, processor, into a $600 box.

If the OP is going to get an AV receiver, he is better off with a separate processor/DAC/preamp. The two main technologies that continue to evolve are DAC's and processor's. Why change out perfectly good hardware, every time only a portion becomes obsolete, it makes no sense to me at all?

Wouldn't anyone, prefer to be able to change out the portion, which has become obsolete?

 

Surround sound integrated amp = Rotel RAP-1580

 

Preamp + power amp with no tuner = integrated amp. This is a dedicated single room solution without any frills like multiple zones, as simple as you can get and still do surround sound.

 

I have a Rotel RSX-1065 from 2003. A great powerful amp/receiver. Stereo for Records is my main thing but 5.1 did movies is good too.

I would consider this Rotel 1580 as I don’t need FM and I like the sound and clean power

I’m not one who cares about extra bells an whistles so Rotel works for me despite their old fashioned on screen interface. But that’s only used for initial setups.

I heard this amp during some recent BW 700 speaker series auditions and it sounded great with them.

 

I doubt such a beast exists and if it does, won't be in great numbers, so your choice will be limited.

Get something like a NOS Onkyo TX-NR818 and you'll maybe change your tune about poor audio performance. Not all AVR apps were/are created equal and the 818 altered my opinion. It was as good as a Leema Pulse and Exposure 3010S amp and I never looked back.

Haven't had an integrated amp since and these days I use active speakers, bypassing the need for a standalone amp altogether.

 

I doubt if such a product exist since multi channel audio usually goes hand in hand with video, hence an AVR. You could look into getting a separate sound processor and an amplifier or use the HT bypass of an AVR to direct the 2 channel audio to a separate stereo amp. None of these will reduce the complexity of the setup.

 

I guess, such does not exist in the consumer price range.
You should look for fashionable hi-end brands, where you get less features for more bucks.

 

And maybe a good old slab of aluminium and copper fashioned up with a few glowy bits and a boutique name in a brass inset.

 

I didn't want to make fun of it.

At consumer level (brands like Pioneer, Yamaha, Onkyo, Sony, ...) all you get is AV receivers.
If you get an entry level AV receiver, the features are less comprehensive than with the top-of-the-line models, which probably makes the manual a little thinner...

But, I guess the OP would not like the idea of getting an entry level device, no matter how good the audio performance actually is.

So, the only thing left is to look for boutique hi-end brands. They might offer something like a multichannel amp with no room correction, and no dts or Dolby Digital decoding, no HDMI, if it's that what the OP is looking for.

 

It really depends on how important home theater is to you. As I like watching the occasional movie and I also like playing some PS4 games - I enjoy the surround effects but it's not crucially inmportant to me.

Surround Receivers can be complex beasts I would agree - but I would make the case for the small slim series of Marantz receivers. Basic 5.2 (or 7.2 if you want to spend a bit more) and these often have a street price of $350. I've had one now for 3 years and use it every day. And it sounds pretty good for music as Marantz chose nicer sounding EI transformers rather than more powerful but sterile sounding torroids. It is pretty darn easy to use - the instructions are clear and it's all very intelligently put together. For the cheap as chips price I have not a bad word to say about it - in fact my rear speaker wire came off and when the surround speaker kicked in the amplifier immediately shut itself off rather than blowing up. No fuse needed here either. And like a dope I did it about 5 more times before I looked at the back to see that the cable came off. So it's a pretty great bloody thing. And it came with a 3 year warranty - a little better than anyone else at the time. I have to say this thing at $350 utterly TROUNCED my $2,000 Surround Sound receiver in 1996. Sure I would expect that in surround sound - but music as well?!

You can always run a higher end 2 channel system as I do. Now if you plan to upgrade the receiver find one with preouts so you can add a power amp or something but for $350 to get some surround sound going and simple that even I can figure it out is great. And I also like the half size size of the thing. I find big fat receivers with a billion connections where 85% of them you NEVER use to just be a waste of space and money. The thing is the size of a CD player.



http://us.marantz.com/us/products/pages/ProductDetails.aspx?CatId=avreceivers&ProductId=NR1506

 

He meant Anthem Room Correction, not Audio Return Channel.

 

.... or Audio Rate Control.

 

My McIntosh preamp has two 5.1 analog inputs. No digital, no video. It’s great and unique. Need to add a power amp though.

Check it out... model C45
Hook up an oppo Blu-ray and you are good to go.

 

I would put another hat in the Anthem ring. Does what it does flawlessly and no silliness with fake room modes or effects. Just best in class room correction and simple but flexible setup.

 

I'm kind of curious why we always see these questions looking for the elusive multichannel integrated when receivers are everywhere. Has radio gotten so bad that we don't even want it in the house?

Nevermind, don't answer that.....

 

That is not how the economics of manufacturing works. What you pay really depends VERY heavily on the QUANTITY produced, especially in this era of integrated chips, so extra features which raise the sales volume can actually REDUCE the price. You can easily pay MORE for less features than an AVR.

To oversimplify, I don't think what you want is possible, because the surround processing requires DSP chips, therefore the whole thing becomes digitized. And if you are complaining about setup complexity, well first off you have my sympathetic ear, but second of all those functions are embedded in the surround standards. Now, could it all be presented and controllable more simply? Ah, probably, but it will never happen, because the people making this stuff really don't get it either. Well, a few do, but not enough and not with enough power.

Now, many AVRs have some kind of automatic setup, and you should really only have to do the setup once...

 

You are absolutely right, regarding the AM/FM radio feature. It's actually cheaper to have the radio feature, because of quantities.

Regarding the operation, I don't know exactly what is so complicated.

You hook up the devices and speakers just like with any amp.
If you want surround, you select the Dolby or dts durround sound track on the DVD.

(The only difficult thing would be HDMI, because that's not so straight forward like S/PDIF. Similary, SACD by itself is not so easy as DVD, if you want surround sound from the SACD.)

The initial setup and calibration is easily done with the automatic procedure using a measurement micropjone supplied with the receiver.

That's the basic operation, and you can leave it like that.

In a similar fashion, a hypothetical integrated surround amp would need to do all of the above, too.
If you want to play Blu Ray audio titles or SACD surround, also such integrated amp would need to handle HDMI, so, could there really be any difference to an AV receiver?

 

Hi Fi Soup - while you may not like the complexity of H/T receivers - I still say you will be better off with a receiver like the Marantz I suggested - the only thing it adds to what you are seeking is a tuner. Big deal. I've never used the tuner on my receiver - but having the screen is an added bonus. Further the complexity of room correction may be very beneficial.

And I'm almost as anti-Solid State and Anti-receiver as it gets far preferring two channel tube amps. I find modern receivers (and lower end models) to be fairly easy to use - heck my 80 year old mother can work it. You'll probably end up paying more for an integrated that will probably do less and do it worse.

Big companies like Yamaha and Denon and Marantz do have economies of scale working for them.

 

Setup on receivers varies wildly. My TOTL Sony ES from some years back (DA5300ES) had a horrible setup. Yes, you could eventually get everything where you wanted, but it was no fun.

The Anthem receivers have a simple screen for each input where you select the video input and check off which audio input you want with it, along with room correction on or off and which room profile you want. You can make a couple different profiles for things like Sub on/off, crossover, and Dolby/DTS on/off. Give a great amount of control without any complication. I like being able to setup audio and video separately since I often keep the TV on while playing music, usually connected to the Apple TV for the screen saver or a slideshow. My only knock on the Anthems is the lack of a multichannel in or pure analog mode. Everything goes through the DSP. They say that the ARC goodness trumps the unprocessed sound and they may be right as it is excellent, but I would like to make that call. BTW, you can turn the ARC off, but everything in goes through the DSP.

This is what a modern high end AVR should look like! No silly input labels or unneeded garbage. Just inputs and outputs. Map them however you want on a simple setup screen. Only thing missing is a phono input and tape loop. Otherwise perfect.

 

That's a nicely done box. Love the simple, classic look.