Integrated Amps - Moving on up!

It might help if we knew specifically which NAD amp and what speakers you're using.

That being said, I agree with @Richard Austen that the pieces you mention are a sideways move.

 

KLIPSCH

 

Wow. Lot's of great comments here even if the opinions run in all directions. My current NAD is the C316BEE and the speakers are Bowers and Wilkins CM5 S2s with a small subwoofer. The speakers are rated at 88db efficiency so I'll probably avoid tubes. Clearly, there seems to be a lot of skepticism about the value of a $1200 "British" amp over a $700 Yamaha - at least regarding sound quality. I guess these decisions aren't always just about sound quality.

 

I've noticed that in the NAD lineup the critics a more enthusiastic about their lower powered products than the higher powered ones.

 

A few years ago I compared lots of solid state amps including the NAD C316 (40 watts/channel). Compared to the NADC356 (80 watts/channel) the C316 and even the C326, the lower end NAD amps sounded weak, thin, nasal and gutless. The C356bee is the best sounding amp I had heard in that price category and sounded better then the higher priced Rogue Audio Sphinx and it held its own against the $3K Rega Elicit R, which for the money is a very poor value IMHO.
With that said, the NAD can easily be beaten but it's going to cost you. The C375 sounds awesome, much more dynamic and refined. Probably the best value amp on the market today @ $1300.

 

My thinking has recently become influenced by reading reviews over at What Hi-Fi. Of course it is a British site so there is that. The plentiful reviews there are long enough to be informative but short enough to easily be read and digested. They summarize things nicely and often provide links to reviews of comparable products. But like many things in audio, they likely are somewhat biased in their opinions. I'm sure I will be once I have some opinions of my own.

 

Not according to the very extensive demo process I did a few years ago. Not even close.

 

Thanks, this is good to know.

 

I agree with your take on the sound of the different amplifier topologies- I love the sound of class A, for example. I would bet that the LM 211A sounds great as well. But the idea that higher powered amplifiers sound worse than their lower powered siblings is more of a fallacy in today's amplifier market.

 

Naim are great, but as hard as I try I just couldn't find any diffrance between the Supernait 2 and the Nait5i2 on my Harbeth speakers.

 

Read my posts carefully. If there are three receivers from the SAME maker with the SAME design typically class A/B then the most expensive one is likely to sound the best - but that's not remotely because it has more power - it costs more because it uses better parts, noise suppression (better shielding), bigger transformers. It may happen to have 100 watts over 50 watts but that is incidental since the vast majority of the time most amps rarely go above 30 watts unless the speaker is very inefficient and/or low sensitive (and since most of these speakers stink no amount of watts can typically save their sorry butts).

Higher power amps typically sound worse not against their own lower priced models but they do sound worse than better topologies like SET which are almost always lower power.

I would love to be pointed to some 100+ watt SS amps that sound good. 25 years and I have yet to hear any with which I could live.

 

i think you need to look at what you want out of an AMP. Why move from what you have now? is it lifeless? don't like the sound quality? the nad 316 should be more than adequate if you arent trying to drive power hungry speakers, and if you like the nad and just want more power maybe look at the 356

ive been researching extensively on amps in the sub 1k price range and the consensus is that there is no consensus, but imo it would seem both yamaha and nad provide excellent return for the price you pay but id probably lean yamaha. Myself i'm eyeing the as-501 but if i had more budget id be in the 800/1000 series and if you really want a jump the 2000/3000 series. I wanted marantz at first but to me the marantz tax was a little high for what you get with the current production.

see if you can audition some in home or if a local shop carries any of these.

 

So the NAD 356 at $800 or the Musical Fidelity M3si at $1500? The Musical Fidelity looks stunning but ......

 

If you like nad and the more powerful 356 is the direction you choose, i'd take a look at the refurbs you can save yourself a few hundred nadc356beer NAD C 356Bee Refurbished - Integrated Amplifiers

 

Have not auditioned Nait512, How does it compare with Teddy Pardo 180A which some say is better than the excellent Supernait 2

 

OP,

After my recent amplifier upgrade quest, I realized that asking opinions of their sound quality is much like asking for opinions on speakers. It can be helpful in narrowing the search, but ultimately you must try to audition a few pieces with your own gear.

I realize it can cost more in terms of your time, return shipments and/or restocking fees, but it pays dividends in enjoyment of your system. It took five trials for me to settle on my current amp, and though it cost more to go this route (I have few places to audition gear locally) I don't have any regrets. Some amps simply jive with specific speakers.

Crutchfield is one vendor who has a great return policy. They charge only $10 for return shipment on much of their gear.
Music Direct is another that doesn't typically charge restocking fees. Safe and Sound has a similar policy.

The downside to internet dealers is that they're usually not willing to negotiate the price and you end up paying retail or close to retail price. I would gladly pay full price for the amp that I know I like better than a a few others, rather than save 20% and continue to wonder if I could've gotten something better.

 

Carver, Technics, Pioneer, NAD, Kenwood, Rouge, Marantz and Yamaha.

 

Musical Fidelity makes good sounding integrated amplifiers at several price points.

 

The M3si is a looker but I'll need a flashlight and magnifying glass to work it.

 

Years ago I had a NAD C352. The sound was full and warm IMO. The only issue I had with the amp was the remote volume control; it was jumpy and impossible to get the correct setting without going back and forth a couple times. I sold the NAD and bought a Classe CAP 151. The Classe was ok, but to me it was somewhat lifeless to me.

 

Used to enjoy my NAD C320BEE but when i changed to a primare i21 it really showed up how muffled the NAD sound was in comparision. It was almost like id been listening with a big blanket over the speakers for a few years that were now removed.

 

Used Parasound Halo integrated on Audiogon for $1700. If you can make the stretch it's a no-brainer.

John K.

 

I'm having a hard time understanding your thoughts on the two items in question. Study the circuits as best one can from photos it's clear the Marantz PM8005 is designed better. Not only does the transformer have its own shield, it is completely shielded from the rest of the critical circuits by a massive aluminum heatsink to which critical circuits are directly attached to it. The signal path cannot get shorter than that. The transformer in the NAD does not have its own shield and the heatsink does not offer complete sheilding of the critical circuits. The Marantz uses much better quality caps, resistors, etc. while the NAD uses basic generic components. In addition, the Marantz weighs 26 lbs. while the NAD weighs 15 lbs. indicating the Marantz has the beefier power supply. Furthermore, the Marantz S/N ratio is 125dB while the NAD is 120dB making the Marantz clearly superior in that aspect.

Your impression of the Marantz sound is pretty much opposite of most users and I myself found it to have an extremely musical presentation. I can't say I recall hearing that exact NAD model, but of the ones I have heard I was left wanting.

 

Every single amp I have had in 35 years of buying HiFi, regardless of brand or price, has, to my ears, sounded exactly the same.

 

Hi F1,

I never said Marantz wasn't musical. and only commented on one NAD amp. Again. I think you completely underestimate the overall design of an amp (synergy between the components inside) and instead focus on things like weight and individual components.

Regards