Interesting comments on the sound quality of (SACD) DSD vs. (CD) PCM

I was intrigued by these comments from the audiophile lable 2L. I suppose because on the days when I think SACD sounds any different from CD, I think it imparts a slight colouration and agree with the way it is described here - softness, though I'd add a slight treble shimmer. But might be imagining it!

http://www.2l.no/

 

Oh this one ought to open a few can of worms. I can predict a few who will become unhinged at it. lol

 

Did he ever stop to think that maybe the conversion tool from 8 Fs PCM to DSD is not transparent and imparting the softness?

 

This is also how I would describe the overall sound of all the sacds I have listened to, on systems going from around $2000 on up to $30K. Reminds me of what good vinyl sounds like.

I prefer PCM myself.

 

Hi Black Elk,

This is a good point. "Softness" is not a characteristic my ears would attribute to DSD, particularly in the high treble where I find it somewhat discomforting (and have described it as a "silent scream").

Best regards,
Barry
www.soundkeeperrecordings.com
www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

Shadows of the Night.

 

I think this is the most interesting part of the blurb:

But it all comes down to what the sound from your speakers can do to your body and mind. I find that the placement of microphones has an infinite more important role in the final experience of music, than the difference between HiRes PCM and DSD. Sometimes a lie can be more beautiful than the truth!

 

My experiences are similar but I have admittedly never owned a hi-end SACD player. On my modest equipment, DVD-A has always sounded better, and less opaque. SACD treble has always sounded fuzzy or grainy to me.

 

A much more interesting comment by René Gambini of Lyrinx label regarding Grimm DSD ADC.

"I have used all high end AD converters known to date. Every one of them had a sound to it. Your converter doesn't: it is completely transparent!"

 

Despite being an SACD consumer for 10 years, I only recently learnt that you can either play SACDs via PCM or DSD.

Novice question: My reciever doesn't support DSD, so I have to output SACDs via PCM. Does that mean that, when output via PCM, the audio is not hi res?

 

It depends. Some SACD players convert the DSD stream to 24/96 which in my opinion is high resolution.

 

I can't find anything in the manual for my Cambrisge Audio 751 BD player which states what the SACD PCM layer is converted to.

It's no wonder stereo SACDs never really took off, if there is doubt over whether you are listening to hi res depending on the player.

 

I love 2496 even from not the best converters. I have not heard 24192 so I can't comment. I have some excellent SACDs and I have others, like Billy Joel's The Stranger that I am less happy with and having the original LP think that the SACD should have been way better.

I think that when you get to this level of resolution that who the Mastering Engineer is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY MATTERS! I also think that their gear they are Mastering Through would also really matter. Maybe listening through more than one speaker system might be a good thing for checking balances and sonic details.

 

The SACD layer is DSD. If you connect the analogue outputs to your amplifier then, more than likely, there is no intermediate PCM stage involved.

I don't think this is a consideration.

 

If the amplifire doesn't handle DSD, though, as I understand it the ouput wouldn't be DSD.

 

Sorry? Are referring to a digital link?

 

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I thought that was if you outputted through HDMI that there was a pcm conversion. Analog outs stayed DSD. I stand to be corrected.

I also don't want this to sound like a big smootch, but with Barry Diament's Sound Keeper Recordings I don't have any SACDs that I like better for the "sound" of the music with his being 2496. The presentation of the 3 of his discs I own are as good as anything SACD I own. It is about as "there" as can be, IMHO. I would have to bet that 24/192 would have to be something.

 

Depends on the player. Some can output DSD. Others will convert, and some of them only to standard-res PCM.

 

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So some will output analog DSD through HDMI as either 2 channel or as 5.1? Does OPPO do this and what HT receivers can accept this?

 

Some will output DSD through HDMI - as a digital stream.

 

I believe the inexpensive Sony players will output DSD via HDMI, in either 2-channel or 5.1. I have one and it seems to be an option, though because my receiver is getting on in years somewhat it doesn't take HDMI, so I've not been able to try.

 

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That may be, but none of the receivers have a DSD dac inside. Does that mean that the player is converting the dsd stream to PCM prior to transmit it by HDMI? I would think so.