Is 2015 a good time to buy a dedicated SACD player?

Hmm. In light of this, I no longer consider my previous post splitting hairs. This is what splitting hairs looks like.

 

I don't see your problem.

When somebody says "dedicated SACD player (or CD player)", it implies a device that only plays discs, which would become useless for someone who gets rid of his disc collection and only plays files (downloaded files or ripped discs).

But since the Marantz has DAC inputs, it can also be used to play files, using an external source (PC or cheap streamer). It's not dedicated to discs only.

The Marantz SA8003 was a dedicated SACD/CD player, the 8004 and 8005 are not.

 

But if you want surround sound, or these large collections of music on a single disc, one needn't buy the boutique models. If one goes down that path later, the discs will be there. I understand "high-end" gear but the market isn't and never was driven by the high-end. A useful consumer product that's also capable of being high-end, there's a concept that hasn't been tried yet.

 

You could very well be right but I'm more interested in SQ than "technical parameters". Other than classical what others genres have big collections on one disc? I'd rather have a player that can play all disc formats. So then I can buy titles on whatever format I wish which includes Blu-ray audio .

I don't consider the Oppo 103 at $500 to be a boutique player. But some might think that when they consider a $100 Blu-ray player to be expensive. Looking to the future one never knows if specific discs (pick your format) will be available down the line.

Bill

 

I think the customers of Blu-Ray Audio (to the extent they exist) are essentially the same customers of SACD. I don't think people with home-theater-in-a-box or $99 blu ray players connected to their TV speakers and/or soundbars are driving that market.

 

Well, the Marantz SA8003 has a digital out. So per your ultra-granular logic, it's not a dedicated SACD/CD player, because it's also a transport.

 

I totally agree that those buying $20 (average price?) Blu-ray audio discs are more inclined to have a system a bit higher end than an HTIB. I also agree that buyers of Blu-ray audio discs are possibly buyers of SACDs and DVD-As. I would think that those with HTIBs are not very interested in the "enhanced" SQ of Blu-ray audio discs.

Bill

 

You're definitely right in that there's technically a large installed user base for blu ray audio compared to SACD. And also right that the market isn't driven by the high end. But Blu Ray audio is "the high end". The baseline is CDs, those things nobody messes with anymore. I think in order for most customers to declare Blu Ray audio to be of superior sound quality to the 44/16 baseline (and I will acknowledge you pointed out an additional dimension in storage capacity and this isn't purely about superior sound quality) they would need a pretty good system, better then what I'm assuming the average owner of a Blu Ray player has.

I'm not sure either format will still exist in 10 years.

 

I suspect if I was in the 'audiophile' camp as far as budget's concerned, the superior technical parameters would lead to better performance. In any case, I see no real advantages to DSD, plenty for high-bit PCM.

Truth to tell, the Oppo 103 looks like a mighty fine digital Swiss Army Knife to me. Might be one in my future.

 

Or a blunt instrument.

 

Ha!

Bought a t.c. audio M2000 20 years ago, needed it for postproduction, reverb and the like. It was 20 bit, sounded better as a D/A converter than what I had otherwise, had better A/D converters than my DAT machines, a true Swiss Army Knife. The Oppo has the ability to play just about anything and stream just about everything as well.

 

The question is not whether but what kind of SACD player to get. My foray into SACD was through some cheapo Pioneer and Samsung models that cost me $20-50 used (e.g., Pioneer DV563a, DV676a, and DV610). However, I also wanted Bluray, so I picked up a Marantz UD5005. All was great until I realized I was never listening to pure DSD since all these players do not do direct DSD to analog conversion. In fact, very few players and AV units do this, which not many people know. Most units convert to PCM first before sending it to the DAC. Some may prefer PCM, but I don't understand the point of SACD unless one is getting pure DSD to analog conversion. So I did my research and since I am a cheapskate, I found an older Denon model that does this and I couldn't be happier. Immediately, I noticed the depth and height of recordings in a way that does not come through with PCM. Once this unit dies, I'll get an Oppo 103 or 105 or whatever is the latest model and never look back. I have only 50-75 SACDs but even if I had just a handful of discs (e.g., Tommy, DSOTM, Gaucho, Blood on the Tracks, MFSL Pet Sounds, and a few of the RCA Living Stereo), I'll always need a player. I prefer vinyl, but these SACDs are indispensable.

 

I think the 103 is an excellent player. If you go that route the 103 is definitely a player to consider.

Bill

 

That's simply not true. With over 10,000 SACD releases (and more just about everyday) the chances are you will find whatever artist it is you are looking for. In addition, the vast majority are fairly priced US issues.

 

I do not think you are splitting hairs at all. If one expects they will get the best sound quality from a consumer grade player of any of the formats, they are selling themselves short...very short.

 

I think your post just jogged my memory that my Oppo is probably still set to convert DSD to PCM from back when I used it as a transport to a non-DSD DAC. Sure do wish I had the thing connected to a TV at the moment, this is going to drive me nuts.

 

I hope the next generation Oppo players have a DSD/PCM button on the remote. That way one doesn't need a display in order to go into the menu to change DSD/PCM setting. I currently have the 103 and 105D in my system. The 103 is connected to the XMC-1 via HDMI with the SACD priority for multichannel and PCM. The 103 is for multichannel music including SACDs. The 105D is connected to the XMC-1 via balanced with the SACD priority set to stereo and DSD. The 105D is for stereo only be it SACDs, CDs, DVD-As or Blu-ray audio.

Bill

 

My your glasses are very rose-colored Far be it from me to rain on your parade. I think I'll go take a spin through the Graham Parker catalog on SACD right now. Oh, wait. . .

 

Generally speaking, I'm not interested in entire catalogs, but if that is your benchmark for any format far be it from me to knock it, although that pretty much limits you to LP and CD.

However, to say, "Name an artist, any artist. Chances are good none of their albums are available on SACD." is like looking through dirty glasses, wouldn't you say?

 

Ok, I'm going to make someone's evening listening with their new Oppo 103 or 105 a solid evening. Once you listen to this SACD of a top shelf recording from 1978, you will be hooked on SACD. I have the original LP and the really super cool SACD , (50 KHz master transfer to DSD) Soundstream Digital, recorded by Telarc in 1978! Frederick Fennell, The Cleveland Symphonic Winds playing HOLST: Suite No. 1 in E-flat, Suite No. 2 in F, HANDEL, Music for the Royal Fireworks and finally, BACH, Fantasia in G (all on this one recording). The monitor speakers for the recording were the really neat ADS BC-8 broadcast monitor speakers. This vintage Soundstream recording was transferred to disc at half-speed. Everyone with an SACD player needs this one. Note: The SACD is a combination of two separate albums and the BACH Fantasia in G was omitted and lots of marches instead, lots' of great "powerful" music.

 

thanks for all the input,
here's some thoughts
* My Ikemi sounds a LOT better than my desktop(I7) + M-dac, redbook on Ikemi sounds better than Hirez on MDac (using same mastering of course)
* I think that regardless of what DAC is used computers are not a great source for music.
* The best digital I have heard was a Linn Unidisk 1,.1 playing SACD,
* The titles I already have, and would probably buy on SACD, I already have on LP and CD
* Oppos are rare in UK and from what little I have heard don't sound as good as redbook on my Ikemi
* I am hoping that one day I can burn needledrops onto blank SACD discs

so still none the wiser, I guess I need to follow my own advice and try and get some home dems.

 

Being in the UK you should check out the Cambridge Audio 752BD as it's on close out at very good pricing. The one downside of the 752BD is that it converts DSD to PCM when using the analog outputs.

Bill

 

Thanks for adding that, and ruling it out all in one sentence!

 

I say 2015 is a great time to get an sacd player! And the Marantz sa8005 is suppose to be an awesome player!! I have the sa8001 and
absolutely love it!!

 

Speaking as someone who's used both DSD over HDMI and PCM over both HDMI and analogue on the 752, I'm happy to report the PCM isn't found wanting. I have it on that setting permanently now.

And of course, audio performance in general is excellent. Just been listening to this Blu-Ray Pure Audio and SACD set and it's breathtaking:-




YMMV of course!