Is a 12-inch tonearm better than a 9-inch?

Not according to a certain turntable manufacturer whose turntables only work with 9-inch tonearms:


"From inception, our design philosophy stated maximum information retrieval....in the real world.

The pick-up arm is one of three elements that make up the record player. Establishing that rigid 9" arms would offer the best performance, our designs were modelled around this parameter.

Recently 12" arms have come back into fashion, claiming lower tracking distortion. However whilst in theory this is correct in the 'real world' this rarely happens and there are also the downsides to take into account.

Average distortion on 9" arms is 0.85%, whilst 12" arms are 0.67%. Some trying to impress will say this is 20% lower distortion, however this is incorrect as in real terms its only 0.18% lower.

Now add to this the downsides of higher moving mass, lower arm rigidity, higher counterweight inertia and worst of all higher distortion caused by misalignment.

Yes...in the real world rarely are styli correctly fitted within the cartridge body and most fit their cartridge using a standard alignment gauge using the body as a guide. Therefore if your stylus is misaligned within the headshell the distortion will be greater using the 12" arm as the distance from pivot to stylus is greater.

Record damage is greater due to counterweight inertia, warp tracking worse by higher moving mass and sonic degradation caused by unwanted structural resonance’s in longer arms, coupled to having oversized turntables causing more issues.

And you still want to use a 12" arm?"


Any opinions about this? I am considering buying a Transrotor Fat Bob Reference turntable, but I am not sure whether to get the 9-inch or 12-inch tonearm version.

 

Really, the only reason you'd need the 12" arm is if you're going to be working with 16" transcription discs. Otherwise a 9" arm will be fine. The most audible consequence of tracking error is going to be azimuth error. If the stylus is not perfectly tangent to the groove, one channel will "lead" the other by a tiny, tiny fraction of a second, causing imprecise location of instruments within the soundstage. Groove damage is possible with a worn stylus, but that'll happen regardless of tone arm length.

 

Thanks for the reply. So in terms of tracing error and distortion, there is no audible difference between 9" and 12" tonearms, right?

 

A couple of false assumptions:

1) The manufacturer ( let me guess - Basis?) is correct that many stylii aren't properly fitted to the cartridege body. However, he (she?) is incorrect regarding alignment guages. Most quality guages (Feikert, Mintlp, Dennessen,...) allow for the alignment of the cantelever instead of the body. Kinda makes this point moot, don't it?

2) Exactly what are the issues with "oversize" turntables?

3) Long term use of 16" transcription arms in radio stations hasn't proven to generate increased record wear, so why should a 12"?

Hi-Fi+ has recently begun a survey of 12" arms including VPI, SME, Kuzma, Schroeder, Brinkman, Consonance, and a few that I'm forgetting. The results have been unanimously favorable and generally indicate improvement over the corresponding 9" or 10.5" arm. Consonance makes an arm with an adjustable length up to 12". Here the reviewer (Roy Gregory) was able to compare apples to apples - care to take a guess which one he preferred.

Read the HI-FI+ articles before you decide.

 

I certainly won't be giving up my 12 inch arm.

I have a 'big' TT though.

 

As with almost any design choice, optimizing one parameter means tradeoffs with others. A long arm means not only more mass, but much more "effective" (inertial mass), because the cartridge, which is heavy, will be suspended far out from the pivot. For the same effective mass, a designer could build a shorter arm that is much more rigid or optimize the arm design to absorb and dissipate vibrations transmitted from the cartridge to the arm.

But, given that most high end cartridges have medium to low compliance and work best with somewhat heavier arms than is the case with high compliance cartridges, and given advancements in materials (carbon fiber, modern ceramics, titanium or magnesium alloys allow for higher rigidity for a given mass), there is more reason now than in the past to favor longer arms.

Not only does a long arm reduce the error from perfect perpedicularity to the groove, it will reduce variation in VTA from different thickness records. I have no idea how audible is tracing error, but I do know from my own listening that small changes in VTA can be quite audible. I don't bother to change VTA for different thickness records, so something that reduces VTA variability is a big plus to me.

 

I thought that size wasn't supposed to matter?

 

I duno, I get tons of emails telling me different.

 

Mörch (a Danish company) also makes a set of 12-inch wands (for their detachable-wand tonearm system) which reputedly sound better than their corresponding 9-inch wands (one of which I own). I am considering eventually getting a turntable that accepts either length and also has on-the-fly VTA adjustability, which I consider a necessity in these days of varied thickness records. Many turntables I find unsuitable because they don't have enough flexibility. You are stuck with certain choices regarding tonearm and cartridge, and they don't make it easy to change your setup or swap pieces, either. The Kuzma Stabi with its separate arm towers looks pretty attractive to me, because you can actually use it with more than one arm and cartridge by purchasing more than one tower. That way you don't have to readjust everything, which is quite time-consuming. And by where you position the tower relative to the table, you can set things up for either 12- or 9-inch tonearms or both. There is also a newer direct-drive design - the Monaco from Grand Prix Design - which has a sliding tonearm mount that can be adjusted out further from the chassis to accomodate a longer arm. I saw this reviewed in the previous issue of H-Fi + (maybe number 58), and it looks very interesting. It seems to be a fundamentally new design approach - you don't see that very often in turntables.

 

One design philosophy is to channel vibrations from the cartridge to the arm and to eventually "sink" that energy in the mass that the arm is attached. An armboard, like that of the Monaco, which is cantilevered off of the top surface, would go against such design philosophy.

I have no idea myself if this is an important design consideration or not. I've heard some pretty nice sounds from the Verdier La Platine that also utilizes such armboards. This just shows that not everyone agrees on what is an important design consideration.

The ultimate in "on the fly" VTA adjustment would be arms like that of the old Air Tangent, which had a motorized VTA mechanism operated by remote control. Still, that would be too tweaky for me. A long tonearm that minimizes VTA change would probably be enough for me.

 

Well, it's all about vibration control. I'm guessing with such a cantilevered design, you would have the same thing happeneing whether the armboard was extended or not, so you would get the same sonic contribution from that aspect of the design no matter which length of arm you chose.

 

The SME table with the extra-large top surface designed to accomodate the 12-inch SME arm would be an alternative, as would the Kuzma, which has an arm pod that is completely separate from the rest of the turntable (one could conceivably put the arm pod on a completely different stand).

I only know two people that have 12-inch arms, and both were on Verdier tables (a Moerch arm and a Shroeder). Both setups sounded very good, though I have no idea what particular contribution the length of the arm made to the sound.

I am only kept from trying it myself by the size of the investment I've made in my current setup (Basis Debut vacuum table/Vector arm).

 

I'm pretty much trying to decide between getting the Kuzma or the SME. I don't think the SME has conveniently adjustable VTA during playback however, so I'm leaning towards the Kuzma with the arm pods. The pods are amazing as they give you a digital VTA readout and you can easily return to a setting as you vary it for different records. Just on paper its the most flexible system I've seen. I have never auditioned one however. Also, it seems like with the currency exchange rates as they are, the price of an imported SME is quite steep and inflated. Since the Kuzma is made in the Czech Republic, it has a more attractive import price, I think.

 

Have you checked the prices on Kuzma? I think you might be suprised at the price. I don't find them attractive!

 

Mine's 13". It's the John Holmes Special Edition Tonearm.

 

SoundQMan,

I saw the Kuzma table at CES a few years ago. It had the linear tracking arm mounted to the pod. The quality of build looked terrific. Frank Kuzma was there and he was one of the better exhibitors (friendly, enthusiastic, informative).

Are you looking at a Kuzma arm or another brand?

By the way, I just noticed that you are from Arlington. I am located in Alexandria.

 

Cool, we're pretty close in location.

I am lusting after the Kuzma Air Line tonearm (linear tracking). I'm contemplating whether I could put the air pump in a closet adjacent to my listening room and run the tubing through the wall to eliminate any spurious noise coming from the pump or condenser. I might buy a second arm tower for a tonearm such as the Mörch 12-inch or the new "reference" tonearm Mörch is making ready for sale soon. Or I could use the second tower with my current arm and cartridge, which are a perfect match. If I did that I would like to get a better cartridge suitable for the Air Line. I'm looking for suggestions on that combo.

 

I'm not generally a fan of these modern "industrial look" tables with belts exposed and all that. I own a very handsome-looking AR ES-1 with a cherry wooden base. However, the Kuzma's machined brass does look beautiful to me in a different way, and given the functionality, flexibility, and high performance, I think I could learn to love it. I want to upgrade from what I have been using for 24 years now, and I think the Kuzma is one of the better looking new-production models, compared to what else is available. The SMEs look fine, too, and more traditional obviously. But after all, I'm buying sound and function more than looks.

 

Ummm, I meant the price being attractive. But before you pull the trigger, have you looked at something like the Galibier?

 

Yeah, I'm sure the Kuzma has been getting more expensive as the American dollar is devalued. None of the prices are attractive on highest quality turntables these days.

I'm not in a hurry to buy. I want to consider all the competition very carefully, as it will likely be my final turntable purchase. I also want to buy from an established, reliable company that I think will be around to support the product in the coming 25 years or so. That might be a good argument for SME. Plus, they make a pretty cool 12-inch arm for their newest table. I'm not familiar with the Galibier, but thanks for mentioning it.

 

Nice Dilemma

SoundQMan,

It must be nice to be in a position to choose either the SME20/12 or the Kuzma with Air Line arm.

At that level of refinement I bet either will be terrific. I really don't know how others make a choice, based on performance, since it is nearly impossible to audition tables and arms in any meaningful way that accounts for all the possible variables. Even if you took supposedly identical tables, arms and cartridges and set them up as close to identically as one could possibly do, there will be significant variance (I know from having heard changes from the smallest of setup changes).

I must admit that "my choice" was not really mine at all. I asked a friend who is in the industry (importer/manufacturer representative) for his opinion on good tables. He has heard FAR more setups in hundreds of venues. He liked the Basis table and arm even though his company has no connection to Basis. That is the primary reason I went with my Basis setup. I like my table/arm combination, but, I cannot honestly say that it is any better than the competition because there is no way to make a fair comparison.

Myself, I've heard so many really good setups that span an incredibly diverse range of product and design choices -- suspended tables, non-suspended tables, magnetic leviation tables, air suspension tables, straight line tracking arms, unipivots, fixed pivots, string pivots, etc. I really have no idea if any particular design is superior to another. I think that whatever you pick, you will be able to make it work well if you then pick a compatible cartridge and a compatible phono stage.

I noticed that you have or had the old AR table. Are you familiar with George Merrills take on that basic design approach? Merrill has some really nicely designed tables. Deja Vu Audio in McLean has the cheaper Merrill table (@ $8,000) with a Triplanar arm. That might be worth looking into as well.

 

Well, with the economy tanking the way it is, maybe I won't be .

Oh, yeah, I've met George and I did some of his old mods on my AR. He even helped me with setup. Great guy! And I have read favorable reviews of the new tables he has just come out with recently. His top model, The Merrill-Scillia 21, is in the same general price league as the SME or the Kuzma - about $24K, I think. Changing tonearms on that one is a big hassle though, since I think the plinth has to be custom manufactured for your particular arm. IIRC, the mounting area for the tonearm is integral rather than a removable piece. It's a great table, but I'm looking for something that's easier to mess around with for trying different arms and cartridges.

 

Thanks for derailing the thread. We might as well discuss automobiles and ice cream instead.

 

It wasn't my inetntion to derail the thread. Are turnatbles not relevant to a discussion of tonearms? They kind of go together.

Regarding the original article you posted, it is probably right about the value of 9 inch arms but maybe wrong about the seriousness of disadvantages stated with 12 inch arms. The problems mentioned with longer arms have probably been adequately solved by those who make a high-quality 12 inch arm, such as SME. The theorectically lower tracing distortion of a 12-inch tonearm may or may not make a significant sonic difference. Those manufacturers who make and market them obviously think it's an advantage, but it is one of many factors in tonearm design and execution. Michael Fremer makes the same argument when considering linear tracking arms such as the one made by Kuzma. Linear trackers offer zero geometric tracing distortion so they should be the ultimate in this regard. But Fremer argues that other factors come into play, and conventional pivoting tonearms when properly set up can sound just as good. If you accept this line of reasoning, then there is no way to make a categorical judgement - you just have to listen on an individual basis to each arm regardless of design principle. Then, cartridge and turntable compatibility also come into play.

 

All other things being equal (and the SME 3009 and 3012 are quite dissimilar in many ways) the lower tracing distortion is what my friends like about their 'long arms'. They all changed from the shorter JMW 10.5 to the 12.5. I'm pretty sure that's the only comparable 'long and short' arm set of top quality around.