She was good, she wasn't great, she was around at a time when, unfortunately for her, a lot of good indie stuff was being produced. I had her first album and she enjoyed some positive reviews from the critics. Never felt she had the staying power though and I'm not surprised she fell off the radar.
I understand that she didn't come across like she was going to be a new Madonna in terms of lifelong success, but If you wondered at the time whether she had staying power - staying power for what to be exact? What (or who's?) is "the radar" she fell off? Rolling Stone's? In that context, she's probably never been forgotten. I've just seen Amy Rigby perform with Wreckless Eric on the back of two of the best individual albums either of them have ever made, which means in Rigby's case in particular that they are as good as any other top-drawer songwriter out there. It was in the Britain, but they played in a small venue to maybe 30 to 40 people. I think this thread is still going because of society's crazy ideas on fame and celebrity: how we boost people up, how we stack them up alongside each other and how we knock them down when we decide they have artistically 'failed' in some way (usually based on our own idea of suitable merit or integrity rather than the creator's). So who do people compare Liz Phair to in terms of achieving constistant success? That other great indie stuff of the 90's? Female superstars from Dolly Parton and Madonna often admit that they either play or ride the fame game... and they have both the ability and desire to be professional celebrity-artists. Is celebrity what the radar is all about? And do artists really have to become polished celebs to be seen as a success? Is Ani Difranco a tragedy too? Is PJ Harvey? All those normal artistic people who are in an out of the limelight? In some respects, even super-consistent acts like Shakira and Pink are only as successful as the album they are currently promoting in these days of uniformly high production values, low album sales and internet song-hopping. I think people forget how short classic-artist 'hay days' tended to be back in the days music fans generally think of as golden. As the history of modern popular music has unfolded we have seen that there is room for everything. Artists who have a right not to be classed as "dinosaurs" in their 30's and can be in it for life, artists as consistently excellent as Amy Rigby yet barely championed by all but the most discerning of critics, intellectual artists like Harvey who maintain a kind of hallowed respect wherever they choose to wander, artists like Madonna and Adele who expertly weild the power of success and call their own shots.. and pinned-up punks like Phair who hit it big early on, primarily follow their creative whims and then seem to suffer perhaps the most amount of unwarranted criticism over their future output. I'm seeing Jon Langford in The Mekons next week, an amazing artist who has always done what the hell he wants whether it is seen as conventionally cool for a one-time punk or not (compare The Mekons to Original Sin to FUN 90 to Skull Orchard Revisited to Punk Rock and all kinds of quality output around them all) and ultimately.. he hasn't starved for his efforts. There's a whole world of superb (and critically-accepted) music out there that isn't about fame or celebrity at all.
Creating a separate threaad for this: Liz Phair – Girly-Sound To Guyville: The 25th anniversary boxed set (4th May 2018)
I’d rather have everything together... for an artist like Liz or doesn’t make sense to have all the separate threads... but that’s just my opinion.
Great post. Opinions on this stuff shift with age, I think. I used to think reunion tours were terrible and avoided them at all costs... In college, in the 80s, I saw Pere Ubu on a reunion tour about five years after they had recorded a lp as a group. They seemed old to my undergrad eyes and I had this sense that I'd missed the boat... Now that five years seems like a blip, and I've seen some pretty damn good shows (and heard some damn good albums) by bands that have reformed 20 years after their first run. Now I completely understand why someone in their 40s or 50s might want to do a tour behind material they recorded 25 years ago: it'll be fun, make some $, why not? Matador has proved that they'll happily pocket a few bucks from a nostalgia grab. They are getting quite good at it. And now those of us that were in our early 20s in the early 90s (I'm about the same age as Phair and we lived in pre-internet SF at the same time, I think) have mortgages, we're primed to buy expensive box sets and the like. To be phair (sorry), Liz P. doesn't belong in the same company as Amy Rigby, Jon Langford, etc. She's not a lifer like that. She has always seemed a bit of the dilettante with music (and some great artists ARE dilettantes). But Exile is a true classic, a great album that I never get tired of listening to. And for my money one the best-sequenced albums of all time. It just keeps getting better and better as the album goes on. She was great on Rogan, too. Very smart and guess what, she's really believes in UFOs and ghosts.
You probably have to love the touring (or at least love playing to an audience) to be a true 'rock and roller' or even punk as you might say. But though I can't remember now what exactly she's got up to over the years (I'm not really that close a fan), I genuinely have appreciated all her fairly varied output, and also happened-on and enjoyed her atmospheric end-title music to the later tv series seasons of In Plain Sight, which I used to buy on ebay on region 1 DVD as it was hardly shown here in the UK. It was a real surprise to see her name on the credits, and though I always liked the quirky music she replaced, it was good stuff too - very moody, and clearly commisioned to suite the new tone the show was taking. I think she's just done what she's done in life. No tragedy, just her life. Maybe she'll write a bio one day - she strikes me as someone who could likely do that. I'll have to check out the Rogan show some time, see what she is actually like in conversation. Sometimes I like to do that, sometimes I kind of don't want to though!
She fell off my radar. Had her first two albums, okay, but no great shakes. And, incidentally, as a brief but hopefully informally aside, I've been listening to music since the late 1960s. Done the genres, got the magazines, listened to the radio. She didn't have it for me. Nick Lowe, Julie Feeney? Yup. All the way. Brilliant songwriters. Liz Phair? Honest and hardworking? Good for her. One of the modest greats? Not so much.
She never had a real indie attitude. If you look at her career you may notice how she became a musician almost by chance. She self taught guitar, started her demos basically by herself (it's said that Come's Chris Brokaw suggested her to try) and at that point she put her nose out and made some musician friends. She chose Matador only because someone mentioned it to her when she asked what was the coolest indie label around. So, no tragedy, she just always wanted to make a big album and be a proper rockstar.
Not at all, especially when you consider how structured and self-conscious was indie culture back in the day.
I asumed you meant it a general sense, re radar. It's all subjective when we talk of our own preferences of course.. from checking Youtube it's easy for me to say I prefer Phair to Julie Feeney (who wasn't on my radar at all), but knowing Lowe pretty well it's much tougher of course - certainly comparing the same sort of time period Phair produced her stuff (ie his first 15 years or so). Lowe wins it I think, and not just because he was so good - he was also clearly (to me) in full control of what he kept doing. He started off in pretty decent band too (wheras I think Phiar started by releasing cassettes for a while). And he's still performing and releasing: a 'lifer' for sure. As to Phair's future output, who knows? She's only about 50 (a few years older than me). It depends what people want from their pin ups. Her last album was about 8 years ago now (and it went 5 before that, when she really started to slow down), and though it's decent enough in my opinion, it does feel a bit 'throwaway' (they all seem either highly produced or a bit off-hand, which certinaly could be a diconcerting to both reviewers and fans).. I certainly hope she makes many more, but I guess I can wait for when (or if) they eventually come. It's always nice though, after you've have to wait a good while, when the new stuff compares favourably with the best. Btw (I may have said this before).. for the poeple who seem to like her first two albums, but not whitechocolatespaceegg or anything after (though I personally do).. it's worth hearing the 1995 EP Juvenilia (it's actually 8 tracks, about 28 mins), as it kind-of supliments the second album Whipsmart, which wasn't quite what it could have been apparently (some story or other).
Not to resurrect the controversy of this thread's title -- although the thread itself has been a vigorous exchange of ideas -- but it sure looks like Liz's half-finished new album with Ryan Adams is not only dead, but verboten. Apparently she now plans to record new demos with her touring band, with an album to follow *maybe* next Summer: BC: Are working on any new material? I am. As soon as we get off the road we’re doing demos with this band. BC: Any idea of when you’ll release something new? I don’t, because we have a lot of projects coming up. I have a book coming out from Random House next year and another project that I can’t speak about just yet that we are negotiating as we speak. I’d imagine that the record would come out next summer. That would make sense. What would make sense is for it to come out at the end of May or early June and then work that and then get ready for the book, but I’m not really in charge of how they market. BC: What label are you currently on? I’m not on a label. BC: Are you looking for one? Umm, yes. There have been labels that have reached out and I’m going to meet with them but first I want to establish the sound so that we are all clear and on the same page about what I’m going to be doing. Liz Phair Talks Wicker Park, ‘Guyville’ Years And How She Might Cry During Material Issue Reunion Not only is there absolutely no hint of the supposed HALF of a double-album she recorded -- and loved! -- earlier this year (was it last year??); she's now saying she needs to "establish the sound" for prospective new labels! Alarming, for this Liz phan....
I thought there were TWO new albums coming out how many years ago? I’m almost proud that I started this thread and all of the bashing I got. So disappointing.
Don’t know about the premise of this thread, but I just saw Liz live in concert a few weeks ago and she was great
Pleeeease, can a moderator change the ridiculous title of this thread?" Liz Phair, Current News" or something similar.
Has she gotten better as a performer? I stayed away this time around due to previous shows I've seen.
Ryan Adams has worked on several collaborative albums, as well some of his own (ask Glyn Johns) , that were scrapped. This also happened with a woman singer I know who isn't Liz Phair. He often ends up not on speaking terms.
