Is there a proper ratio of cartridge to 'table cost?

@Gasman1003 aah I see, so the Bronze stylus was swapped out for the Black. That makes things extremely simple, doesn't it?

They will no doubt continue to market the 2M range, but all the plaudits will no doubt help the price ease up!

 

Jelco arms have a built-in fluid damper, so, if you have yours filled will the damping fluid - you got away with using a high compliance cart on a medium mass cart. But that's rather a compromise I'm trying to avoid. I don't want to "get away" with anything, I prefer to make a suitable "match" from the outset.

 

Yeah, sorry if I didn't make myself clear.

The body of the Bronze is identical to the Black.

I bought the Bronze on the dealer's advice, and was very satisfied with it.

However, when it was time for a new stylus I gave the Black a go and it's a revelation.

You're probably right about the price

 

Thank you.
If you don't mind: how about the improvement on the Bronze compared to the Blue? To be honest I love the Blue and wonder if I wouldn't end up liking it better than the Bronze. These carts are expensive here...

 

@Benzion yes I did experiment with fluid....it is only half full at this time. It does make a difference to the sound surprisingly.

@Gasman1003 Yeah, you were perfectly clear...the 2M range is so well marketed, allowing for the styli of the Bronze<>Black and Red<>Blue to be swapped across. It was a masterstroke, completely at odds with the usual 'make the mugs spend as much money as possible' approach in the hifi industry.

 

This is exactly the information I was looking for, thank you. I won't go back to the Pro-ject and I'm considering the fluid damper. The cartridge manual says loading should be 100 or more so it may work but not perform the best. Anyway, there are more carts out there and I guess I should eliminate this from my wishlist.

 

It's actually no different than their old, and less confusing, Super OM series, where the 10, 20, 30, 40 stylus could be interchanged and had a more obvious upgrade hierarchy. Simpler too as there was only one cartridge body. I think it is the internet that has to be credited for the popularity of the newer series, as that wasn't available when the OM series was in full swing production.
-Bill

 

I don't like the Red much at all. The Blue is a bit better, but too bright overall for my tastes. The Bronze is significantly better in all aspects. It has a more flat response with higher resolution, and it tracks so much better that IGD will be a thing of the past on records that haven't already been damaged by using inferior set-ups. It's a great investment as it preserves your records and sounds so much better. the other essential is to be sure that you clean your records with a good fluid at least once to get any crud out of the grooves. A clean Lp surface and a line contact stylus are the way forward, my friend.
-Bill

 

@KT88 the Red is pretty industrial but a step up from the cheapest of the cheap. I personally enjoyed the Blue, it was a little toppy but nothing too out of the ordinary. I can't speak for the other two, but the Bronze seems to be the big jump. You are correct that the internet has a lot to answer for in the way of adulation and cult following...look at the likes of One Direction!!

 

'The Bronze is significantly better in all aspects. It has a more flat response with higher resolution, and it tracks so much better that IGD will be a thing of the past on records that haven't already been damaged by using inferior set-ups. It's a great investment as it preserves your records and sounds so much better.'

Hi everyone, I have a quick question for Bill. You posted a photo of this 2m bronze a while ago and it looked like you had mounted it from below, how did you do that? I'm using a TP63 headshell.
Any advice gratefully received. Stephen

 

So, what is the best fit (cartridge) for the U-turn Orbit (turntable/tonearm)? The Ortofon 2M Bronze? Or maybe the lighter Ortofon OM series (30/40)?

 

It's an interesting question. There probably is a point of diminishing returns, but I would focus instead on:

How good a match is the cartridge to the arm and the phono preamp?

How often are you going to need to change the cartridge due to wear?

How much can you afford to maintain a wear and tear item?

I think if you get those three right you win.

 

It should be able to take either, though I would hesitate to spend more that much on a cart for the Orbit. The fatal flaw of the Orbit is the high W/F. Not worth investing a ton of money into, IMHO. I would would put that money toward a better turntable instead.

 

FWIW, I have an entry level table—Sota Comet III. It was $850 new, now $1400. I use a less expensive cartridge than you have on your Orbit because it is a very good match with my arm and because I need a new stylus several times in a year. Five hundred bucks a year for fresh styli and a new set of power tubes, record cleaning fluid etc., and I easily put a grand a year into keeping it all running.

 

I think I am going to try to find an Ortofon OM 30 to try on the U-turn.

 

One of the downsides to stretching a budget too far on carts is the temptation to run them too long. I replace my stylus based on estimated number of hours used. This can mean replacing the stylus every 6 months or once a year. Rarely can I go more than a year unless I am using multiple carts in rotation. When I see people post on here saying they are using the same cart for 2, 3, 5 years or more I wonder what is going on. Either they don't have time to listen to records very often or are using the stylus far past the time it should be used.

 

Take a moment and look at the gain of the cart and the gain of the phono section. That has so much to do with the overall presentation.

 

Ever buy a used record in “NM” condition to find there is horrible distortion the inside grooves? Yeah. I mention this sometimes but you do hear people who keep them on for years. For me, 800 hrs is pretty much it.

 

This isn't my experience with stylus wear. There are many variables but 1,500 to 2,000 is a reasonable life for most carts. I'll agree that that hour 700 might sound better than hour 1,200 but the point of a clear issue due to stylus wear has been constantly close to 2,000. It take me just under two years on average to get to that point. I recently replace a Lyra Delos that was close to 2,000 hours. High end detail, especially on MOFI or AP pressings, started to sound raspy or distorted.

But you are very correctly, a $2,000 cart or more isn't going to get replaced at 1,000 hours especially if it doesn't sound bad.

 

I am using the Orbit with a Lounge Audio LCR MK-III (gain = 40db).

 

The only way to accurately judge wear is by using a microscope. Most people don't have microscopes so they are taking a shot in the dark. With your Lyra, I assume it has an advanced profile and that you feed it a lot of audiophile pressings, you probably can get quite a bit of life out of it. But without a microscope and lab testing, you don't know the true amount of wear on it. There was a thread recently about this that talked about research Jico, Expert Stylus, and some others had done on stylus wear. One of the people in that thread had wear on an Ortofon Cadenza Black at 700ish hours.

 

Yep, a lot of used bin records have groove damage for worn styli. Sometimes it is not too bad, sometimes it can be off the charts. One of my friends in college would use his styli until they wouldn't track anymore, period. That's after putting a coin on the headshell, jacking up VTF, etc. You don't see this often nowadays because of hi-fi forums and people being more educated about caring for records and gear. An extreme example, but you get the point.

 

40 dB is given as nominal gain value. As per Robert himself, the actual gain is around 42.5 dB.

 

I may be a bit simple but my policy is "if I can't hear a problem, there isn't a problem." I have a few different tables/systems and I like to change around configurations quite a bit. I've pulled a 2m black with over 1,000 and felt it sounded better than a newer cart with less hours that replaced it. Same thing with the Lyra. It's a bit like tires on a car, there are best when they are new but still function as designed until they wear out. When they are worn out, it's not subtle.

 

I’m probably in for a major turntable upgrade in the near future, and when I do so, I intend to continue using my AT-VM95, largely for this very reason. I can manage $150 as a stylus replacement cost for a ML stylus and/or $100 for a nude elliptical, but the proposition of a $400 replacement stylus for some other cart is likely prohibitive, unless I stop buying records or really curtail my listening habits, which defeats the purpose... I know we have our own thread for gushing over this cartridge, but stylus replacement cost is something I consider very important in choosing a cartridge. It’s not a one-time cost!