Jeff Lynne - a musical genius

In the archive there is a thread where Beagle writes:

Well, first of all, I love Jeff Lynne and think that he is a musical genius. He - together with Richard Tandy - is my musical hero.

A few remarks: it's simply not true that ELO borrowed everything from the Beatles. It' s beyond doubt that Lynne is a Beatlemaniac, and there are many references and allusions to the Beatles to be found on his recordings. However, Lynne wasn't simply imitating the Beatles with ELO. Their sound is totally different, drawing from many influences (classical, fifties rock 'n' roll, other sixties heroes such as DEl Shannon, Joe Meek(!!), Beach Boys, Phil Spector, Procul Harum, Shadows, Orbison, Brummie Bands..., black music, R&B, Soul and contemporary bands such as Queen, AbbA, Floyd, ambient artists...) and synthesising everything into something original. So, in fact, this is what he really learnt from the Beatles who borrowed their song elements from a great variety of artists as well and synthesised them into something new.



Tom Petty said that Lynne is the biggest talent in pop music he has ever met.
He is Lennon, Mc Cartney and George Martin rolled into one.
- a great voice and one of the best harmony singers
- a great multi-instrumentalist and guitarist which he didn't really show on ELO records, but did you know that the young Brian May went to the Idle Race concerts because he was so impressed by Jeff's guitar technique. Jeff could make the guitar sound like a violin.
- a fantastic composer (the master of melody)
- a studio wizzard: Not only were ELO innovative in combining elements of classical music with pop/rock, but they were also pioneers of ambient synth pop. They also came up with new production techniques. Moreover, they carried the technique of multi-tracking to an extreme and created an impressive three-dimensional sound (it would be great to hear surround mixes of ELO songs). Lots of things going on in the background, distant voices, but also close-up things. Lynne says that the techniques of distant micing were essential for the ELO sound. They were really ahead of their time. Lynne is a true master.

 

I'm a fan. A lot of music borrows from other music; it's the nature of, uh, music.

I get the idea he's a good guy, too, and he respects the history of rock and roll. Rolling Stone was strangely critical of his production of the Traveling Wilbury albums in their review of the reissues, but that stuff doesn't matter to me. The good thing about this forum is that people like and dislike all kinds of music. If you've got a favorite artist, you'll find others who feel the same.

 

I LOVE Jeff Lynne's production work. The only time I think he went over the top was with Discovery and Xanadu, which are so gimmicky and sugary sweet as to be positively revolting.

 

Jeff's a huge talent, obviously, and has been tagged with a "trademark" production. That being said, the work he's done producing other artists has been largely successful.
Tom Petty's "Full Moon Fever"
McCartney's "Flaming Pie"
The Wilburys
Roy Orbison
The Threetles
.....and many great ELO albums. Not too shabby.

 

Hello Pelo,

Welcome to the board.


Stephen

 

Lynne's talent can't be underestimated.

I think most of the ELO records show much brillance and innovation.

The 70's just wouldn't have been the same to me without those great ELO records but I just wish he'd still be active these days.

Just wish he'd give us a new ELO album, a tour or better yet both.

 

Yeah John, I'm with ya on that!
I had tickets for ELO a few years back, at around the time of "Zoom". Then it got cancelled! That sucked!

 

I remember Chris C telling me the same thing.

That had to have sucked big time especially with tickets in hand.

I suppose lack of good promotion nixed that tour.

 

No, that was Roy Wood. You might hang the genius sign on him. Lynne was a magpie.

 

I think the reason for the cancellation was an overestimation of turnout to see the band. Of course this could be related to a lack of promotion. They were to play a sports arena in Philly ( Wachovia Center). I had great seats on the floor about halfway back. Lack of ticket sales nixed it.

 

I agree that Roy Wood was also very talented , and probably a genius too, since we're throwing that word around. But, Jeff Lynne as a magpie? I never saw him as a bird.

 

As I sit here listening to 10538 Overture for the 30th time in two days I can't help but disagree with the slew of negative comments about Jeff Lynne and his productions. I don't understand why people complain about producers like Jeff, Mutt Lange and Lanois. I guess imparting a "sound" isn't acceptable for some reason. What I don't understand is why people like bland producers. Why would you hire someone to make you sound like everyone else? Doesn't make sense to me. Come to Nashville if you want that!

I'm still going through a bit of a Jeff Lynne phase. Besides having one of my favorite singing voices I am bowled over with his productions and studio whiz-bangary. Jeff's done more interesting things with just the acoustic guitar than most producers do in a whole lifetime. Other producers are hacks compared to him. He creates something new instead of just a bland presentation of the song.

I was talking to Mike Campbell about Jeff. Mike is a brilliant musician and has made significant contributions to music history yet he said Jeff Lynne is so far beyond him he was still in awe of his abilities even after making all those records together. Quite a compliment.

One other thing, I LOVE!!!!! the Jeff Lynne drum sound. It went through some rough times as it was developed but Richard Dodd perfected it for Armchair Theater. That album is so inspirational to me. The songs, the mixes, the thick analog sound. It's a beautiful sounding album!

 

I'm a Mike Campbell fan, too. That is quite a compliment. Did he play guitar on Dylan's Emotionally Yours? Love that track; fantastic guitarist.

I recently got a copy, finally, of Orbison's Mystery Girl; I think that was a Lynne production. Sounds good to me, too.

 

Mike said Jeff would have an idea for new part and would pick up any guitar and just do one pass. Mike said he would have to work for hours to do it as well as Jeff did. I'm sure he was exaggerating a bit but those are the kinds of things he was saying about Jeff. You could tell there was lots of respect for him.

 

I think the feeling is that Jeff Lynne makes everybody he produces sound like him, which to some, is too far in the other direction from sounding like everybody else.

I don't know, I don't hear it that way. I never had any trouble distinguishing the Threetles tracks or anything from Flaming Pie from anything in the ELO catalog, but maybe that's just me.

 

I just couldn't say that all tracks Lynne co-produced on Flaming Pie sound just like Lynne. I think there's a good balance on them, just like FAAB. Definitely it sounds like a Lynne production but I wouldn't say it's heavily done. So when that sort of bland happens it's indeed the best thing.

 

Of course it's true that Lynne took over the original ELO concept from Roy Wood, but in the years to come he took the idea to a whole new level. We're talking about the guy that I hold mainly responsible for Eldorado, Face the music, A new world record, Out of the blue, Time and Zoom. A musical genius? Without a doubt. All IMHO of course. He's, as Pelo rightly stated, a 'master of melody'.

To some extent, it's true what some have said about his production style that makes every artist sound the same. There is some truth in that, but I happen to like his 'sound' and those albums by Tom Petty, George Harrison, Roy Orbison et al were bettered by it. I love to listen to those, not only because of the musical quality, but also for the production style that fits the songs really well.
Only negative thing (next to Discovery, of which I'm not too fond - but that's a different discussion) I can think of is that I don't think Jeff Lynne's a very good singer. Not awful, but it could have been better.

 

IMO, an overlooked and sometimes denegrated masterpiece in the JL catalogue: "On The Third Day"!

 

I love this Record.

 

Yep.

 

I think Jeff makes everybody sound pretty good, if this is a projection of him, it's further testimony to his genius!

 

Personally I wouldn't quite call Lynne a "musical genius".

He probably IS "brilliant" - I will certainly grant you that. "Brilliant" in terms of the very high quality of talent he's exhibited in so many areas.

BUT, I would stop shy of calling his song-writing alone "brilliant", or his production skills alone "brilliant". Or any other ONE particular thing that he does as being (all by itself) absolutely superlative.

What makes Lynne so special is the combination of things he does all so very well. But I don't think he's among the very best at what he does, in any ONE of those areas -- and THAT'S what I think it takes to be considered a "musical genius".

( Not saying I'm "right" -- just my take on things. )

That said, I'm not sure what pop/rock musicians I would consider to be "musical geniuses".

The Beatles were, collectively speaking, clearly musical geniuses. Lennon and McCartney were probably (collectively) musical geniuses too. But I probably WOULDN'T say that INDIVIDUALLY either Lennon or McCartney were "musical geniuses", per se. If you're talking INDIVIDUALS, I'd probably call Hendrix a "musical genius".

Miles Davis was a "musical genius" in my book. Ornette? - probably, or at least possibly.

Somehow I think the term "musical genius" ought to be reserved for about 100 to 150 people AT MOST within the last century (among ALL musical genres).

Would I put Jeff Lynne? on a list of the 100 most important musical figures of the last century?? Probably not. He's brilliant, to be sure, but not quite "top-100 of the last century"-type material, the way I see it.

 

Not to go off topic with ya, too much Rooster, but how about Brian Wilson?

 

Genius is word that's overused. I don't know if Jeff Lynne is a genius; or Brian Wilsom, John Lennon, McCartney, Dylan, Paul Simon, Randy Newman, or Joni Mitchell, etc. I do know know in my listening and reading about these people, that they are all supremely talented and worked hard for what they've acheived in their art. They worked harder and sacrificed more suffered more than I could ever imagine myself doing. I can't imagine that it would be easy to be great and I'm sure they'd tell you the same.

I sometimes wonder if I have one great song in me. Then I log onto this board and space out for an hour.

 

Perhaps the more appropriate word is prodigy. People who are brilliant usually show signs of their talent at a young age. Or maybe people who aren't particulary talented but can translate what they hear in their minds onto a recording via sheer determination are geniuses.

I am surprised by some of the comments about the JL sound. I know you guys have great ears by what I've read in the Audio Hardware forum and your opinions on various pressings of records. You can pick apart equipment differences with your ears, yet deliberately colored and manipulated sounds and recording techniques are OK by you. IMO comparing Refugee, Don't Do Me Like That or Stop Dragging My Heart Around to Running Down A Dream or Learning To Fly is like comparing a nice chunky home-made stew to a Lean Cuisine frozen entree. Where are the instruments, punch and energy?

I agree that JL has his own thing and is great at what he does but that thing is all I hear on his productions for other people. That's when Petty sounds like Harrison sounds like Orbison sounds like Lynne.

Having said that, I think Secret Messages is a fine sounding record, compared to the mud on earlier ELO stuff.