Jim Hagerman's Bugle2 Phono Preamp Kickstarter Project

First thing I would do is check that the power is actually getting to each op amp. Check the that DC is actually on the power pins of the opamps.

 

Here come the tubes! What do you all think about the "no case" or plastic case idea?

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1907446723/cornet3-a-diy-tube-phono-preamp

 

Interesting. I'm looking to try a tube phono preamp, I was looking at the Parks Audio Budgie but this seems to be in the same price point. I'm wondering how this and the Budgie compare to the more expensive stages like the EAR 384P, Manley Chinook, etc.

 

Well, that Budgie looks interesting...for those who know such things, what is the difference between the 6DJ8/6922 and the 12AX7/12AU7 tube combos?

 

Hagerman's designs are top notch. His Trumpet Reference phono stage got a Stereophile Class A this year. I built a Bugle and PS from him and it served me well until I got a Chinook. The Cornet 3 will likely sound great. Think it's pretty close to a Cornet 2 which gets great reviews. To compare a DIY to a commercial product like a Manley Chinook is tough. And they are just different leagues build-wise although I have seen some gorgeous Cornet 2 builds. The Chinook is way more expensive. It's built like a tank (heavy metal case vs plastic), beautifully built, has a massive PS, MM/MC compatible (Cornet 3 will need the Piccolo 2 step up), fully adjustable load impedance and capacitance, and gets rave reviews (Stereophile Class B) and so on. The end result might be the same though, only time can tell.

 

I built the original Bugle and PS and really enjoyed it. So much that I built his Cornet 2 which is in another league, particularly with 1950s vintage Amperex 12AU7/12AX7 tubes. The Cornet3 eliminates the expensive power transformer and Lansing metal case and Hagerman says sonics are essentially the same. $300 for the Cornet3 sounds like a winner! Of course that price does not include NOS tubes.

 

The no case thing will make it touchy. It will always have more noise and hum than in a case. Usually the noise floor will ride just below the noise of a LP. I have done such things many times when building prototypes but it is an eye opener to watch the hash and hum go way down as the circuit is set in a real chassis.

Hagerman may regret this later.

 

Saw this comment in the Analogue Planet entry: "Not crazy about using DC to DC converters in lieu of traditional transformers in tube equipment. Ironically it runs close to the redbook sample rate at 44khz." What does this mean?

 

What about the plastic enclosure? Is that a sacrifice in any way?

 

Sorry, should have been more clear. With no metal case to shield the electronics the noise and hum will be sitting at about -60db. That is about the best S/N ratio you will get with vinyl. At first glance this might seem OK but one you live with this you will find it's not.

It is usually impossible to fully filter out the 44khz switching noise from infecting the preamp circuit at least some. So the guy is basically saying that the Hagerman preamp will have a noise floor similar to a CD player.

 

I'm in the same boat. I was looking at the Budgie too. I heard some needledrop clips posted on Audiokarma and the Budgie sounded very good. It also has cart loading options, which I don't think the Coronet3 has.

 

I like the look of the Coronet 2 better, but I don't have the time or patience to put together a kit. I'll probably give the Budgie a try.

 

It's a big investment, but I may go for the Cornet 3. I've been really interested in tubes. If it sounds as good as advertised, it may be a really good value.

 

I don't understand this "kickstarter" thing. There's just something about a company that can't fund its own R&D that rubs me the wrong way, I'm sorry.

 

From Mikey Fremer's article at his site:

"Why is Hagerman, who markets finished products doing this one via Kickstarter? The custom case cost is high. He figures the break-even point comes after he sells 113 kits without postage. After adding postage and about $10.00 margin per kit, that's the $16,000 minimum pledge value to fund the project. That way, you get a great product (he says and based upon my past experience with his other stuff, that would be true) and he can safely launch it into the marketplace without financial exposure and at a very low price."

http://www.analogplanet.com/content/jim-hagermans-bugle2-diy-mmmc-phono-preamp-kickstarter-project

If there's enough interest to go into production, then the Kickstarter money gets used. If not enough folks were interested then Hagerman hasn't spent out of pocket for a custom case he won't have an immediate use for, and no Kickstarter money is involved. Jim's been designing gear for years, and I have no doubt his latest phono stage is worth the modest cost.

 

Kickstarter initially was just for artists who wanted to crowd fund their work and projects, without the time and hoops that grants can come with. I have no issues with businesses like Hagerman's on kickstarter, as its a safer way of creating a very worthwhile product, which could be considered an artistic endeavor of itself,with buyers already in line. Kinda win win all around.

 

I see nothing wrong with it, there are plenty of people out there with good ideas and not enough money to bring them to fruition. You think a bank is going to loan him the money to do this?

 

Yeah, definitely not funding his R&D, just materials.

 

Me too.

Still, It's not like it's a million dollars. Frickin card it like the rest of us.

 

So he should assume the risk of running himself into debt on something that may or may not sell? I don't get why people are so against kickstarter, I guess it's just because it's "new". Kickstarter is allowing him (and countless others) to put an idea out there to see if there is any interest. If there wasn't enough interest then it wouldn't get funded and no one is out any money and no one's credit card is maxed out. I applaud him for doing something that avoids taking on debt, something we all could learn.

Anyway, it seems that more than enough people are on board with his funding campaign as he quickly reached his funding level and has a bit of time to go. I'd really like to buy one but as I said earlier I prefer the coronet2 but it's only in kit form, maybe I'll give it a go if I get some spare time.

 

So, I am ready for my first external phono pre and I'm strongly leaning toward the Bugle2 (assembled). Quick question as I am not up to speed on the technicalities of cart output: I currently have a Denon DL-110 HOMC cart, and in the next 6 months will be upgrading to an MM cart, likely a Elys2 or 2M Bronze. After that I will likely stay with MM carts.

Will the 40dB version of the Bugle2 work with my HOMC cart in the meantime? My limited understanding is that the 50dB model would be ideal for the DL-110 but 40dB would do until I get an MM cart. As the Bugle2 is not adjustable I want to make sure I order the right model that will work for years to come. Thanks!

 

40dB will be fine. I used my Bugle with a Denon DL-160 with no problems.

 

Okay, thanks, good to know. Your Bugle is the 40dB model?

Looks like both the DL-110 and DL-160 have an output of 1.6mV. Hagerman's website says the 40dB version of the Bugle2 is for cartridges with an output of >2mV, while the 50dB is for 1.5mV. So I'm guessing the 50dB version is ideal for HOMC, but the 40dB will do.

 

Yes, it's the 40dB model because I've always planned to use mainly moving-magnet cartridges with it. If you knew you were going to only use the Denon for the foreseeable future, the 50dB would be best. Later on, if you wanted to switch it to 40dB, you could change the gain resistors yourself or get a friend that's good with a soldering iron to do it for you. But since you have plans for MM carts, I'd get the 40. FWIW, the difference between the 1.6mV Denon and my 3.5mV Shure is only 6.8dB. All I had to do was turn the volume up a little. The noise level of the Bugle was so low to begin with that it didn't make any difference. The Bugle 2 is even quieter.

 

Well, after far too long, I've finally ordered a Bugle2 (40dB). Looking forward to hearing the improvement it makes over the integrated phono section in my receiver. Hoping to get an Elys2 cart by the end of the year as well. But one upgrade at a time.