Jimi Hendrix Both Sides of the Sky - new album coming March 9, 2018

Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by fsutall, Dec 6, 2017.

  1. PaulKTF

    PaulKTF Forum Resident

    Yeah, I think that image would look fine as an album cover.
  2. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    ontario, canada
    No, Alan Douglas got called out for doing that on his first two Hendrix albums - erasing and replacing in some cases everything except Jimi's voice and guitar - and even going as far as adding another guitar player on some songs, not to mention crediting himself as co-writer on the first of those two albums before being called out on that as well.

    Do you really think they could get away with that in the internet age, where every new release gets some of their individual included songs called out as being inauthentic (compared to the long circulating bootlegs) because the bootlegs prove that EH sometimes fly in elements from multiple (recognizable to the hardest of hardcore fans/bootleg collectors who've heard them all) takes to create a master using protools.

    If EH tried to hide the fact that they're doing that (no clear mention/description of what they've done in the liner notes and at least once IIRC Kramer getting angry and walking out on an interviewer who asked him about the obvious pro-tooling he'd engaged in, but didn't want to admit to) I doubt they'd want to risk going so much further as to add any fake Jimi-impersonator playing into the mix. They'd be crucified.

    In the book McDermot & Kramer co-wrote, someone who worked at one studio that Hendrix recorded at was quoted saying he was amazed that at Hendrix's insistence the tape machine ALWAYS had to be recording, and that these full tapes of mostly unreleasable (at the time) raw jams/demos/works in progress would just be piled up on the floor of the control room as each was replaced on the machine with a new blank tape . EH supposedly has several hundreds of hours of material to draw from. Certainly not all of it releasable through mainstream channels, but then that's why the Dagger "official bootleg" label exists.
    Hep Alien, zphage, Tristero and 4 others like this.
  3. Olompali

    Olompali Forum Resident

    Like the Stones' Blues Tongue, the new Hendrix cover seems more as an easy identifier for an app on an Iphone.
    Makes sense.
    supernaut, Matthew Tate and DTK like this.
  4. Jimi Bat

    Jimi Bat Forum Resident

    tx usa
    Wait until you here the track called Jungle if its the Dagger track.
    These two tracks just should not be on a mainstream release.
    I feel sorry for anyone buying this hearing those two tracks and thinking this is what Hendrix wanted the public to hear.
    If this is what passes for releasable product these days can the old Springboard releases be far behind?
    Purple Jim and DTK like this.
  5. Jimmy B.

    Jimmy B. Forum Resident

    It's hideous.
  6. tcbtcb

    tcbtcb Forum Resident

    sugar hill nh usa
  7. malcolm reynolds

    malcolm reynolds Forum Resident

    Will Johnny Cash and Tupac make appearances on this album?
    Imagine70 and Matthew Tate like this.
  8. John Fell

    John Fell Forum Survivor

    No Miles Davis.:D The legendary collaboration that never was.
  9. Efus

    Efus Forum Resident

    Jackson, NJ, USA
    Sure. I'm a huge fan, simply due to Jimi's massive talent and creativity,
    but it doesn't mean I take a blind eye to how he conducted his life and business.

    While Hendrix mainly appears happy go lucky and an unassuming individual, there was a darkness that surrounded the man for much his life.
    Those things aren't much discussed.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
    hodgo likes this.
  10. SoundAdvice

    SoundAdvice Forum Resident

    Wasn't the last Dagger with new studio material in 2006?
  11. jhm

    jhm Forum Resident

    Not to mention we have books that detail his recording sessions and EH always includes recording dates, so it's easy to pick up a book like Ultimate Hendrix and see what was being laid down on any given day. It's likely it doesn't cover 100% of the sessions as well.
  12. Headfone

    Headfone Forum Resident

    I've come to terms with a couple of things:

    1. "The Hendrix Family" is first and foremost a business whose primary interest is to make money off of Jimi's name and recorded output. Not sayin' that it's right or good, but I get it.

    2. I have never gotten over Jimi's untimely death and having to accept the fact that there were no new recordings made after the summer of 1970. Because I've never gotten over that, I will always buy any product containing music of Jimi's that I've never heard before.

    Simple as that, for me.
    Hep Alien, Opeth, Efus and 7 others like this.
  13. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    ontario, canada
    Well it still exists, they never shut down the label (a live disc came out not too long ago), so until/unless they do shut it down, it remains an available outlet for the release of 'non-mainstream'/'official bootleg' material regardless of how much/how little they actually use it.
    Matthew Tate likes this.
  14. beccabear67

    beccabear67 Musical Omnivore

    Victoria, Canada
    I've read there are thirteen tracks, ten never released, mostly Band Of Gypsys sessions, and two with Stephen Stills. I guess the other three are remixes or something?
    Matthew Tate likes this.
  15. PacificOceanBlue

    PacificOceanBlue Forum Resident

    The Southwest
    Which is a huge disappointment. EH has reels with hundreds of hours of music, much of which is not particularly viable for mainstream commercial use, but a lot that is ideal for Dagger releases.
  16. cryingbluerain

    cryingbluerain Forum Resident

    As a hardcore Hendrix fan, it's exciting to hear about any new release. I was afraid the well had finally gone dry and they were only going to put out Dagger official bootlegs & live albums from here on out. So this is a nice surprise. Regarding the track listing:
    1. Mannish Boy: a really cool version can already be found on :Blues. Except Jimi forgets some of the lyrics. Alan Douglas combined different takes of what was essentially a loose jam into a "finished" song. I assume Kramer's version will be a whole lot better. Experience Hendrix has spent a lot of time in the last 20 years correcting Douglas's mistakes.

    2. Lover Man: My first thought is, "really? Why?" There's been so many versions of "Lover Man" already released. Both studio and live.

    3. Hear My Train A Comin': Again, pretty repetitive. 2 Experience studio versions have already been released and one with the Band Of Gypsys. Seems like EH can't put together these posthumous albums without including a new version of this song.

    4. Stepping Stone: The Band Of Gypsys layed down some great studio work leading up to their legendary New Year's 1970 concerts. I assume this is a pretty raw early take like "Earth Blues" off PH&A. So it should be good.

    5. $20 Fine: Amazing this hasn't been bootlegged. I thought the Stills/Hendrix fall 1969 session only featured Jimi on bass and were all instrumentals. This is the track I'm most looking forward to hearing.

    6. Power Of Soul: Again probably an early take like "Stepping Stone."

    7. Jungle: This is basically another name for the "Villanova Junction Blues" instrumental jam. A cool instrumental that was featured on the Dagger release Morning Symphony Ideas. Hopefully this is a different take.

    8. Things I Used To Do: Another heavily bootlegged track. It will be nice to finally hear this properly mixed and unedited. The excerpt Douglas included on the Lifelines box set was pretty weak. Johnny Winter plays some great slide guitar though.

    9. Georgia Blues: Originally released on Martin Scorsese Presents The Blues which I didn't know was out of print. Great blues song like all of Jimi's collaborations with Lonnie Youngblood. The backup band is killer.

    10. Sweet Angel: A December 1967 version can be found on South Saturn Delta. So I don't know why they are including a January 1968 take unless it's vastly different. Although Hendrix rarely played any song the same way twice which is why new albums are still coming out 4 decades after his death.

    11. Woodstock: Another heavily bootlegged jam. I believe Jimi only plays bass but maybe they found a version with him on guitar. I remember reading Stephen Stills found a bunch of his recordings featuring Hendrix in his attic several years ago.

    12. Send My Love To Linda: A solo rendition of this song was featured on Lifelines. It was about a minute long. Had a lot of potential but is obviously only an unfinished demo.

    13. Cherokee Mist: Guessing this is the version from the Electric Ladyland sessions featuring Jimi on guitar, sitar and tribal drums. It's a cool instrumental but goes on way too long. But anything from Jimi's 1968 recording sessions is worth a listen. That was his most creative period.

    All the songs sound interesting. Kramer & McDermott are really good at finding diamonds in the rough because they are such huge Hendrix fans. Doubt seriously this is going to be the last studio album since Kramer said the same thing when People, Hell And Angels was released. There's some interesting outtakes and demos from Jimi's summer 1970 sessions at Electric Lady studios that haven't been officially released.
    supernaut, Hep Alien, hvbias and 6 others like this.
  17. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    ontario, canada
    Agreed on both counts. As far as Janie VS Alan Douglas, I definitely find both of their seeming motivations to be kind of distasteful:

    1 - Janie being motivated primarily by money and maximizing profits at all cost - there's been some disturbing non music related official Hendrix merchandise of highly questionable taste released under her watch.

    2 - Alan Douglas seemed to be motivated mostly by ego, and being seen/respected as "Jimi's record producer", while making his productions/releases more about himself than about Jimi or his fans. I remember reading a fairly appalling interview with the man around the time of 'Voodoo Soup's' release not to mention the interview/article being accompanied by a laughably pretentious posed photo of the man to boot.

    He was asked about the songs from RB & WH that didnt make the cut and he dismissed them out of hand as being 'badly sung' and/or slamming them as being too 'hippie' or whatever. I wonder (if he'd been in charge long enough to do a followup) how he would have praised those very same songs that I'm sure he would have used on his next studio release, though I can't remember if it was in this interview or a different one where he said there'd be very little more coming out after Voodoo Soup. I can't remember everything he said on that, but one thing he said was he planned on releasing ONE double CD live album compilation of the best rare/unreleased live tracks and close the vaults for good as far as live material goes. Anyway the interviewer challenged him on dismissing tracks for "bad singing" or being too "hippie" or whatever - that Jimi wasn't just a pop star, but rather a musical titan on the level of (the interviewer's example) Charlie Parker for whom even the lesser released and unreleased works have value (both historically and musically).

    Then Douglas counters him with the claim that his daughter doesn't like those songs and that he made 'Voodoo Soup' for her demographic (teens), not for a bunch of middle aged people stuck in the past. He also said if he thought he could get away with it he would happily burn the majority of the unreleased tapes, but he figured if anyone found out that he'd done so, some crazy fan would kill him.

    ...and so on...

    So given those two very obviously flawed options of stewards, I definitely prefer Janie. Some of the non musical garbage she authorizes purely for the money (and definitely not to enhance his image or legacy) "Hendrix Cloth Diapers" anyone? can be kind of repugnant, but at least she set up the Dagger "official bootleg" label to cater to the hardcore fans who were obviously nothing but an annoyance to Alan Douglas, who wouldn't have dared letting that stuff out - What release that substandard garbage with MY name on it as producer - perish the thought!

    I do fear what will happen when Eddie Kramer's gone though. He's done some questionable things while working with EH to be sure, but imagine how much worse it could have been with someone else at the studio controls, who never met nor had any direct connections with Hendrix (or the gravitas his personal experience of working with the man gives his opinions). You can criticize some of what Kramer has done (as have I), and whether he's done some very similar things to those he and McDermot disparaged Douglas for doing in their book (shades of grey IMO), but it could actually be possible that Janie has asked them to do far worse (anything for a buck) and they were able to talk her out of doing some even more egregious things.
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017
  18. Wayne Hubbard

    Wayne Hubbard Forum Resident

    I like the Dagger track. If I remember correctly from the "Sessions" book, the title "Jungle" was
    used in a couple different jam sessions. I need to pull that book out, it has been a while since I
    read it.
  19. cryingbluerain

    cryingbluerain Forum Resident

    Yeah it's a shame the Experience Hendrix B sides are so hard to track down. You can download some of them as MP3's through Amazon and iTunes.
    The "Stepping Stone b/w Izabella" single was released on Voodoo Child: The Jimi Hendrix Collection and The Singles Collection boxed set. I assume it's the unaltered, original single mix.

    Sounds like the version of "Power Of Soul" on Both Sides Of The Sky might be the final Kramer/Hendrix mix. The only place to find it before was on the "Somewhere" vinyl single B side.
    The Lifelines version of "Valleys Of Neptune" should have been included on West Coast Seattle Boy. I think it's missing bass guitar which is why they combined it with the 1970 instrumental take.
  20. the pope ondine

    the pope ondine Forum Resident

    i wish they would just pull the cord and do a cutting edge style "every song he recorded massive set" much more enticing than this. and they could recycle the old hits one last time
  21. wildstar

    wildstar Forum Resident

    ontario, canada
    From a post upthread with info grabbed from Amazon:

    Power Of Soul - For this album, we present the mix that Hendrix and Kramer prepared of the complete song at Electric Lady on August 22, 1970.

    Jungle - the "Second Disc' website lists this as unreleased, which makes sense because the 'Morning Symphony Ideas' take is like what 9 or 10 minutes long? A bit long to be included on a mainstream aimed release, no? Plus the fact that EH has been surprisingly good at not re-releasing/recycling the exact same duplicated takes/mixes on different releases, though I do wish they would when it comes to all those singles they put out with exclusive B-Sides, some only available at certain stores and some only available on vinyl. I'd be quite happy if they repeat those by adding them to one of these "new albums" they release, or the next boxset which if the pattern holds should be out in the fall of 2018, since the 'West Coast' box came out in the fall of 2010 following the Mar 2010 release of the 'Valleys Of Neptune' album - which were the first releases of the previous Sony contract.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2017
  22. cryingbluerain

    cryingbluerain Forum Resident

    It's a line from the song "Midnight Lightning." The version he played at the Isle of Wight.
    "I get stoned. I can't go home
    I'm calling long distance on a public saxophone
    My head is achin'. Lord my mind is breakin'
    Feel I got run over by Captain Coconut and his dog named Rover.
    Gotta keep on movin'. Gotta keep on groovin'
    To understand both sides of the sky."
  23. vinyldreams

    vinyldreams Forum Resident

    Main St.
    Black Gold, if you can believe the hype.
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  24. cryingbluerain

    cryingbluerain Forum Resident

    I think just because it sounds cool as a title.
    Other than the solo rendition on South Saturn Delta, there's not a studio version of "Midnight Lightning" worthy of official release. The 1970 summer Electric Lady take contains some great guitar solos from Jimi but the dirty nursery rhyme lyrics are just embarassing. (think Andrew Dice Clay).
    supernaut and Purple Jim like this.
  25. Hamhead

    Hamhead Sinatra promo specialist

    He's prolific since he's been living on a uncharted island with Tupac, Elvis, Kurt Cobain, Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, and several other members of the 27 club.
    Whenever revenue is getting low, one of them hits the studio and records a few tracks which get issued as "newly discovered material" ;)
    Hep Alien and Matthew Tate like this.

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