Jimi Hendrix Experience Electric Ladyland (50th Anniversary Edition) 4-CD Box EH/Sony Nov. 9

Finally listened to the 5.1 PCM and sorry I cant get behind what many say on this thread about it being better than the 5.1 DTS. To me the 5.1 DTS is the better sounding. Both are great though. This matches my general feeling for all releases when there is a choice I always prefer the DTS. I have yet to hear one where I dont prefer the DTS.

 

VON clip Makes the 97' 'Ice Sculpture IOW' Dolly Dagger look vaguely sensible.
Sorry, not really!

Back to Douglas there was the mini album Johnny B Goode with really bad edits and liner note errors plus an accompanying video completely ruined by a modern dance troupe performing to Voodoo Chile (slight return).
Gosh that clip was garbage!

 

Sorry to ask this late in the piece about DTS & PCM.
Are they seperate disc's or seperate layers and with one requiring certain equipment to be revealed?

 

I personally Like Crash and Midnight. I didn't know the politics as a kid and grew up with them.
They are fine by me.

 

Well I grew up with Jimi's three albums plus COL, RB and WH. Along came Loose Ends which was a mess (with one or two good tracks - but no posthumous overdubs).
Then along came CL and it sounded weird. I read in the press about how it had been fabricated so that explained it. Most tracks aren't too messed with, so it was interesting. I was very pleased to get the original recordings later on.

 

I like his one CD version of Woodstock, it has a nice warm feeling to the mix. I sold it when the EH two disc version was released, regretted it so re purchased.

 

Midnight Lightning is horrendous I remember getting it at a record fair as a teen & being so disappointed when I got it home lol.

 

The Creature From The Black Lagoon digs Hendrix!

 

If you’re talking about the 5.1 PCM and 5.1 DTS audio tracks from the Blu-Ray, they should sound exactly the same.

 

Cool. I definitely respect your opinion. I wish I could have a crack at the 5.1 mix for this. I wouldn't bring Jimi up to date as much as I'd make it as psychedelic as the stereo mix, and recreate the effects as Jimi heard them.

 

Well, one has to compile the songs into a playlist because there is not an official January 1 release, but your point is well taken, Hendrix was incredible at the Fillmore East.

 

You'd think so, wouldn't ya? Or at least very close.

Not in this case, though. At least to my ears. At times, it almost sounds like a different mix, even though it isn't.

Crazy, I know.

 

I also like Voodoo Soup

 

They are seperate layers/serrings on the Blu Ray. There is only one physical Blu Ray

 

I find the 5.1 PCM version has more echo which I don’t like. This seems to be the case on a lot of 5.1 Dolby mixes. The absolute worst offender in this respect is the latest Woodstock anniversary Blu Ray. That one has so much new material but is marred by echo heaven. And to top things off the Dolby 5.1 is your only choice! Horrible 5.1 imo. I believe Kramer did that one too. He did a much better job on the new Monterey Box. I really love the latest Monterey Blu Ray. Hopefully a 50th anniversary Woodstock release will rectify the current echo laden release.

 

You might want to check the settings on your receiver.

 

Pretty sure its not my settings

 

People are saying the same thing about the Dolby vs DTS lossless 5.1 versions on the White Album, over at QQ.
I am very skeptical to say the least.
Can someone rip the DTS lossless and compare it to the PCM so we can get to the bottom of this? They should be exactly the same and the variations should only be in the equipment/settings.

 

There's NO WAY the lossless DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 and PCM 5.1 are different

 

My ears tell me there is a difference between the LPCM and DTS, besides if there wasn't what would be the point of including both.

 

There are still some receivers out there that don’t decode/support DTS-HD Master Audio

 

I was thinking DVD/BD players.

 

I finally had time to listen to the whole 5.1. mix yesterday.

A few caveats to mention first; my 5.1. setup is in my combined man-cave/guitar room/music room/gym. I was listening to the album while doing a work-out so I wasn't able to devote full attention to it. This means I also wasn't in the absolute sweetspot all of the time, and I also think my system could use a little calibration and tweaking. I only got into this a few months ago, but have been loving every second of listening in surround. At its best, it can be an immersive experience that takes the music to a new dimension. So my first and foremost criteria when judging a surround mix is this; does it transport me and immerse me?

The answer in this case is yes, at least some of the time...

I will say that in general, I think Kramer has done a good job. There was some hesitation when this was first announced due to Kramer's lack of experience in mixing for 5.1. There are mixes out there which are an outright fiasco (can't say I have hear any, but I don't have that many surround records yet), but this isn't one of them. Generally, it provides good seperation with discrete elements in each speaker, working together to create an immersive whole. But there is some song to song variation in how successful it is at making the whole thing hold together, and also to how well it immerses you.

To be totally fair to Kramer, we have to remember that anyone hearing this, is going to compare it to...
- the stereo mix of one of the greatest albums of all time, that most listeners are going to be intimately familiar with. I know that I, for one, would be able to immediately pick out any different/new elements in a mix, compared to the stereo mix which I have probably heard close to 1000 times since I first heard it about 25 years ago.
- any new approaches to the mix, be it in instrument and voice balance/placing/tonality/fades/effects, will immediately feel unfamiliar and strange.
- the stereo mix is, IMHO, one of the greatest stereo mixes of all time. It is such a complex record, and the stereo mix manages the admirable task of adding to the complexity, while still maintaining a very strong, fundamental sound and punch, uniting and even enhancing on all the elements it is made up of.

So with all that out of the way, in my opinion this mix frequently succeeds incredibly well, but there are some elements and some songs that are less successful. Let's do it song by song:

1)...And the Gods made Love: Nice swirling sounds as expected, like stereo only enhanced to work in 360 degrees. Works very well.
2)Have You Ever Been (to Electric Ladyland): love this mix. The stereo is a touch murky and it never really gelled with me as an opening number. The surround mix opens it up and the backing vocals are really enhanced, making it a warmer, more welcoming opening track. The lead guitar parts don't stand out quite as well as on the stereo.
3)Crosstown Traffic: this is the only dud on the album. I suppose it must have something to do with being on 4 track. The basic backing track sounds exactly like the stereo mix, but mostly reproduced in the rears. Where you expect the guitar and/or whole mix to come screeching across town from the rear to the front, from left to right, there's just some weird tremulating thing going on in the rears. Not completely out of place, but very underwhelming. The whole thing seems to lack some punch compared to stereo.
4) Voodoo Chile: love this. It works extremely well in surround, being able to reproduce the room atmosphere in even greater detail. Bass is about 1000 times better than on the stereo mix. I wish Jimi's voice had been put in the center front though, then maybe switch it to the rears when he drops out and goes to talk to the hangers-on/studio crowd.
5) Little Miss Strange: Nice enough...like the basic song itself, it's not one of the highlights on the album, but strong enough on its own.
6) Long Hot Summer Night: this is one track that frustrates me. It starts out really nice, and promises to be an excellent surround experience. There are so many layered guitars and other elements on this that it could lend itself particularly well to a surround mix. But as the song goes on, it seems to lack direction or something. Maybe this is because we are so used to the stereo mix, which emphasises certain guitar fills over others. In the surround mix, they are more "equal", which is interesting for a while. But the song seems to lose some punch and direction, and you end up feeling that Kramer didn't really know where he wanted to go. Creating a New mix is going to be guesswork in any case with Jimi not around to supervise it, but this is one track where I can't help but feel that Jimi would have wanted it a little different.
7) Come On: Not too much to say about this other than you can hear some parts more clearly than before, and the room feeling comes across better.
8) Gypsy Eyes: I had high hopes for the surround mix of this, and I think it delivers. This is also a somewhat layered song, but not as dense as Long Hot Summer Night, and it works so much better for it. Some people have mentioned that the flanging effects are a little different than the stereo, which is true, but it doesn't bug me.
9) Burning of the Midnight Lamp: this stays very close to the stereo mix in spirit, but with "enhanced" flanging, better separation of the voices and an overall more psychedelic swirl. Thumbs up from me.
10) Rainy Day, Dream Away: Jimi's guitar sounds a little distant, it's more in your face in the stereo mix. I think that takes a little away from the overall score, but otherwise it's a nice enough surround mix. It might be my setup needs to better calibrated and my listening position adjusted though, so take it with a grain of salt.
11) 1983... (A Merman I Should Turn to Be) and
12) Moon, Turn the Tides Gently, Gently Away: This is the one we were all waiting for, right? Let me tell you, Kramer knocked this one right out of the park. It doesn't obliviate the original stereo mix, that is still a beautiful sound painting in its own right. But as an alternate view, this one is IMHO extremely succesful. Look no further than the middle instrumental section. I almost broke into a cold sweat (well, I was sweating already in my workout...) when Kramer submerges us all completely. Seriously, I had hallucinations of starfish and giant foams, I could see Neptune and mermaids and hear the cheers from Atlantis. It's a whole new experience. So what if the echoes on "Beyond the will of God, GOD, GOD!!" aren't as loud and distorted as the stereo mix? It didn't bug me, anyway.
13) Still Raining Still Dreaming: see #10
14) House Burning Down: this is another of the slightly frustrating ones. The surround experience definitely enhances some aspects over the stereo; bass and drums come through more clearly, and the psychedelic flanging effects are enhanced by being able to swirl around in 360 degrees. But the sound of the flanging is a little cleaner and the guitars sound a little weaker. In the stereo mix, the guitars sound explosive and desperate and Jimi really conjures up flames with his guitar. In the surround mix, the basic elements are there, but they don't jump out at you in the same way. I think basically the guitars should have been more prominent/louder/more dramatic, but sound a little more subdued/cleaner. It works very well during the verses, but in the intro and outro, where you want the climax to happen, it becomes a little anti-climactic by comparison. I think I need to hear this more times and adjust my setup to give a completely fair assessment.
15) All Along the Watchtower: can't really remember the details too well.Like it well enough.
16) Voodoo Child (Slight Return): effective and immersive surround mix, and retained the punch of the stereo well I think. One possibly annoying element is some added flanging which wasn't on the original. I'm not sure I think that was neeeded, the panning and delays are enough by their own, but it was OK. Sounded a bit more like Robin Trower's use of flanging IMO.


So to sum it up:
Good: my most anticipated surround songs all generally work very well. Bass is generally excellent and at times almost revelatory! 1983 middle section: WOW!
Bad: a bit inconsistent. Crosstown Traffic weak. Some songs lose a bit of punch compared to stereo.

Total score 8/10.

 

I did a stereo downmix of the 5.1 with JRiver. It is definitely less volume compressed than the CD - a big difference. The downmix did result in a couple of small odd stereo effects, but nothing major. It will only bother you if you are a fanatic fan who knows every note and placement of the stereo mix by heart.
The downmix itself sounds very much like the CD mix, just with less volume compression. That's definitely what I'd listen to in 2 channel.
That said, I don't think the CD sounds terrible at all. I'm not a fan of the totally unnecessary volume compression. But it depends how sensitive you are to the volume compression. Some people will think it is fine.
It's better to listen to it without looking at the graphs first and decide.

 

The bluray has a flat digital transfer of the original mix in 24/96. It is also volume compressed to DR 8, though.