John Lennon on Joni Mitchell: 'Overeducated'.

I don't mean to completely exonerate the reflexive Yoko-bashers. but I don't think that Heather inserted herself into Paul's musical life in the same way that Yoko did with John. There's weren't a buncha "Paul and Heather" albums. So there is a significant difference there. But in the end, the fact is that John wanted Yoko to be his partner in his music and if that annoys people, too bad for them.

 

He became a better man hanging around Nilsson.

 

Although Heather claims she helped him write songs. Who knows.

Anyway, back to the topic. I consider both John and Paul musical geniuses. One just had more soul than the other. John's comment was more on musical style than anything else.

 

Well the definition of class may differ slightly between the USA and UK but generally working class would be I guess blue collar, and John did sort of qualify by birth. However he was brought up by Mimi in a UK suburban semi-detached house in a fairly decent area of town. Now houses in the UK are quite different than in the USA, an average USA house would be like a palace to us and this is mainly because there is so much land in North America even modest properties are massive to us, but when you have so many people crammed into a smallish island then our average houses are much smaller. So Mimi's home may look very modest by USA standards but in the UK these houses, at the time would be more associated with the more middle class, white collar or even professionals, doctors etc but not generally blue collar although they would still attract more affluent blue collar workers . A working class home in the UK in say 1960 would usually be associated with back to back 2 up 2 down or on a old style housing estate, Mimi's home was well away from that. So basically John was more of less born working class, but thanks to his aunt and uncle he was not really brought up in a working class environment. Ringo was undeniable working class, George and Paul probably closer to John in upbringing but John lived in the most upmarket house out of all of them I think.

 

No he was never upper middle class imho, not even for Liverpool, that would be Brian Epstein, however aside from that your point is very well made, he was certainly not brought up in a working class environment. Even though Mimi hated John apeing up his scouse accent that does not mean he ever talked like Brian Epstein, that was true northern middle class.

 

It is easy to appear to be working class when your father abandons you at 4 and your mother dies at 17.

 

And I think that had he remained with his mother and father (and they remained together), there would be no doubt that he was working class.

 

Freddie was a waster and Julia away with the Fairies. Everybody could do with a Mimi scolding them a bit and despite John being John and moaning about her, he knew it and Mimi knew that he knew it. The bond between Mimi and John is actually very touching and understated, I believe he took her on their first proper US tour and he supposedly phoned her once a week, religiously every week until the day he was murdered.

 

John Lennon was from a working-class family. And class differences are very pronounced in the UK.

 

everybody in Laurel Canyon probably lol, they all moved in those circles.

 

Joni had trophies. John had.......May Pang.

 

Prince gets it,
“I love all Joni’s music,” he says, adding that he does her songs “just to keep her name out there. Joni’s music should be taught in school, if just from a literature standpoint.” - Prince

 

True, but that's not why he appeared to be working class. If anything, being raised by Mimi instead of Alfred probably made him a great deal less working class, both in appearance and reality. I see several other reasons for that perception: First, my understanding of England in that era was that nearly everyone from the North was assumed to be working class until proven otherwise, and Lennon never did anything to that end. Second was his vulgar, salty style ("just rattle your jewelry"), and finally, sometimes he outright said so, even proclaiming himself a working class hero. In America, I don't know how many people knew of Liverpool's reputation for high unemployment and so forth, but Americans do love an underdog story, so they probably welcomed the idea that the leader of rock's greatest band was a rags-to-riches story.

I'm not sure what your point is here, but by every account I've ever read, May Pang was a very pleasant individual. Not something you often hear about Jackson Browne, just for example (yes, I know his fling with Joni was some time off yet at the time).

 

Yes there's, Swann, and a house, er and....Swann yes eh ...um...BUZZER !! oh buggar

 

Eagles GEFFEN you name em they are all there

 

hmmmm i dunno, I am certain he was referring to himself in WCH, but maybe in a listful way, a working class hero is something to be, maybe something he would like to have been certainly at that period in his life when he was doing his Russell Brand impression ( yes Russell its all been done before by better men than you )

 

"Spent time", eh? Say no more!

 

he went on smack and took a long hiatus from music for much of the time he was with her. A better man ?

 

Nah, Paul was also an idiot for being sucked into Heather's scam.

 

It's about time someone played the H card. I was expecting it. John and Yoko briefly "sniffed" H in the late '60s. John kicked the habit and wrote "Cold Turkey" about it. John was always into drug experimentation, well before he hooked up permanently with Yoko.

He went on to become more health conscious, on a macrobiotic diet. Also stopped being a misogynist, and came to terms with the hostilities and chip on his shoulder that he harbored as a younger man. Found the love, the mother figure, he always craved and needed. He mellowed a lot. John said "Yoko saved me from a kind of death". End of story, the man's own testimony.

And what does stepping away from music have to do with anything? That in itself was also a good thing for John -- he wanted out of the business for awhile, and to raise his son. It's only selfish fans who were crying because he wasn't making music for them. So was Lennon supposed to be a musical puppet just for your own personal gratification...?

 

Paul was an idiot for not getting a pre-nup. But otherwise, he was never completely comfortable with Heather, and they never jelled well together... so he divorced her rather quickly.

JohnandYoko were well matched, and loved each other. John never felt he was "under Yoko's control", and he angrily (and rightly) lashed out about it in the 1980 PLAYBOY interview, to fans who said he was "being lead around like a dog on a leash". He said
"F--- you, brother or sister, you don't know what's happening - I'm not here for you, I'm here for me and her, and now the baby".
Told 'em to go after Paul and Mick, and "go chase The Rolling Wings".

 

I recommend you expand your reading on the subject matter.

 

Paul could say the same thing to all of us..."You don't know what's happening or happened." But everyone has an opinion.

 

Well, every guy in that predicament is in deep denial, out in the real world.

 

Two hyper-sensitive, bitter artists with sizable egos who made some great music.