Jonesin' for a new (to me) cart... what would the SHF do?

Now that I finally have an SL-1200 to call my own, I've stopped looking at that upgrade and I'm now looking at cartridges. For no reason than I can. My current daily driver is the tried and true M97xE with the Jico SAS. The original stylus never even made it out of the box before the Jico went on.

From the turntable purchases I've made, I've also wound up with a Stanton 500 (I think it's an AL? No other identifying marks beyond Stanton 500 on the label of a gold cartridge body) with a conical stylus, and a Pickering V-15 also with a conical stylus. There is also an AT95e that came with my LP120, but I'm leaving it for that turntable.

I'm definitely pleased with the Jico, and would strongly recommend it if asked, but taking the other carts I ended up with out to play got me to wondering what else I can do. When the LP120 was my only turntable, the AT440mla would always come up in the conversation. I grew up reading National Lampoon, and remember all the Empire "Keep On Trackin'" ads. There are a few 2000E/III's popping up on the 'bay, either with the original stylus or without, and replacements are out there to be had from places like Turntable Needles. Not original replacements, of course.

Are those two spare carts I have worth upgrading to elliptical? Is the 2000E/III as good as some have said, and will the replica replacement stylus get me near that magic? Or is the Jico where it's really at, and I should stop letting the money burn a hole in my pocket?

Speaking of money, if I had to name a budget, I'd say $200-$250, or the equivalent of another M97xE and Jico pairing.

Oh, I almost forgot, I've got lots and lots of prog, lots of rock, a decent amount of jazz, some R&B/funk, some classical, and a healthy dose of exotica, space age pop, and traditional pop.

 

I found a D71EE elliptical stylus at LP gear. Would this fit okay in the Stanton?

Still looking at the old Empires on the bay. What say you all?

 

http://www.amazon.com/DENON-DL-110-...ie=UTF8&qid=1454139578&sr=8-2&keywords=dl-110

Denon DL-110 high output moving coil so it still works with MM pre's. Usually closer to $250 but this Japan import is $188 with the downside being the shipping time. Worth saving the money IMO.

 

AT33ptgII is a little over your budget but imho Is worth the extra money. Yesterday I listened to the playback of a needledrop of the second side of Wind and Wuthering in my car.....best I have ever heard it sound, so stunning I had to remember to pay attention to the road.

I also have the 1200 with no modifications, and this is the best cart I have ever owned, I actually purchased two.

 

Try the M97xE with the OEM stylus! It's not horrible like so many seem to think. In fact, it sounds wonderful with 250pF of capacitance. I'm pretty sure the character will be very different from what you're getting with the SAS, much more meaty.

Kind of a different direction from where you're planning to go, but if I were you I'd instead invest the money in a KAB fluid dampener, which will improve the performance of your high-compliance SAS on the medium mass Technics arm.

 

Actually, breaking out the original stylus has crossed my mind more than a few times this week. I've got two of them, as the first M97xE I bought was bad, and I never bothered to send it back.

The damper is also on the agenda at some point. I may have just found a use for the snowstorm OT cash on my next paycheck.

 

I agree with action pact, I would not try to find 'better' or 'different' needles or cartridges. Upgrade instead the 1200 with the fluid damper, this is a much more objective move, and every arm should have one.

 

I'm looking all over Google, but I can't find anything on the SA-600 for capacitance specs.

 

You need to also measure the capacitance of the tonearm as well, not just the phono stage in your amp.

But try the OEM stylus and see what you think. It will probably sound darker than you're used to with the SAS, but you might enjoy the difference in presentation.

 

I just ordered one off eBay for $174.99 with free shipping. It'll be here by next Friday. There are now 5 left! http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-DENON-D...586806?hash=item2101a62676:g:44IAAOSw3ydV5HWi

P.S. No, I'm in no way affiliated with the seller.

 

What are you running for a phono stage?

 

Who me? Or did you mean the OP? I have a Pro-ject Tube Box S connected to my Pro-ject table. However, my intention is to try the Denon on my Technics SL-1200MK2 which is connected to a vintage Sansui QRX-9001 Quadraphonic receiver, so I'll be using it's built-in phono stage. I don't believe that it will work for certain types of quad records (the CD-4 type), but it should be fine for all of the others as well as stereo discs. I'm interested to see just how it will work with the MC Denon. I can always get a separate phono stage for it if I think that will be better. It's worth a try to me, and I've been eyeing this particular cartridge for a while. The price got me to pull the plug, so to speak.

 

My SA-600 receiver. I see no reason to go to a standalone. And besides, all the other inputs are already taken.

 

All this talk of loading on the Shure wherever I look makes me want to just chuck it in the river, because for the life of me, I can't find anything beyond the stock 47K resistance on the receiver's phono stage. And even if I could measure it, it's not something I can adjust without further gear investment.

That's not to say I don't like it, just the opposite, but I keep wondering if I'm got getting all I can out of it because the rest of my setup doesn't accommodate it quite right.

As for now, I'm going to let the Stanton with it's D5107AL (AFAICT. White body, blue/teal dot, no other identifying marks) break in for another week or so. Payday will probably have me ordering the D71EE elliptical.

 

I can vouch for the KAB fluid damper as well, definitely a worthwhile investment for a 1200. When I was upgrading carts on the one I used to have in my system, I moved away from the m97xe to an at440mla and things just didn't sound quite right until I installed the arm damper. Seemed pretty harsh sounding but the damper cleared and smoothed it all out. Easy to install too.

 

It's not that big a deal. You need a multimeter that can measure capacitance first, then if you need to reduce the cap, just get two Y-splitters and put some capacitors on some RCA plugs.

 

You mean resistors.

 

The photo shows resistors, yes, but you need capacitors to adjust capacitance, no?

 

Yes but you can only add capacitance that way.

 

Hmm, yes, that is correct.

 

I resoundingly second the DL 110. I was running a Shure M97xE/JICO SAS combo for awhile. Then, I got the DL 110 and that is what I am going to keep coming back to. I absolutely love this cart. It works fantastically well with my SL 1200, too. It generally works very well with Technics 1200 tables. I got mine on eBay for like $160. Do not hesitate in trying out this cart. Tracks just as well if not better than the SAS in my opinion and I feel like it is an actual upgrade to it in my system.

 

Here's three vintage options that you can find for less than your proposed budget:

JVC Z1S with SAS stylus
A&R P77 with SAS stylus
Ortofon M20FL Super

All three sound great into 47k and straight cable capacitance and will slaughter any new production cartridge at your budget. Go over to Audiogon and search the forums for these three to find many glowing testimonials from users who also own some very high priced cartridges. Good luck.

 

Good for you. I'm sure you'll enjoy that combination.

 

If it was me, I would look for a vintage Shure V15 type 3-4-5 and equip it with a Jico SAS. I run a V15 III with the SAS on my 1200 mk2 and it sounds awesome....TT is stock except for the RCA cables.