Just bought an Ortofon 2m Bronze...

Hi All,

Have just dialled in a bronze on my PLX-1000 using Baerwald. Previously I have been using the Ortofon 2m Blue, the Denon DL-110 and the Nagaoka MP-110 (the last one sporadically only as I wanted to see what the fuss was all about - slightly poor midrange in my opinion however.)

Ok, I know the following:

1. Having read reviews of the bronze I know it is more "analytical" than say the 2m black; and
2. It takes time for a cart to break in properly (as I write this I have approx 10 min on the cart...)

The bronze sporting a fine line stylus I fear the worst however - that my ears find fine line styli too bright. I had the AT 150MLX as my first ever cart since rediscovering vinyl a year and a half ago. Although a very good cart objectively speaking I could not take the 150MLX's brightness, even after a long period of breaking in. So, I downscaled and got the 2m blue which I like but is missing "something." The DL-110 is very good too and might be the cart for me in the long run (cost vs sound increase benefit.)

Those of you who have the bronze:

a) What are your thoughts after having lived with it for a while?
b) Does it warm up a bit after a period of break-in?
c) Are fine line styli inherently bright?

Many thanks in advance!

Nubben

 

A friend brought his turntable to me a few years ago to set the cartridge.
This being a 2m black.
Very sweet warm and detailed. The word Lush cones to mind.
The bronze is as you say analytical.
Dropping the rear of the arm down might smooth it out a little ,
Although I hear it has quality control problems, the Shure Mx97e is a wsrm sweet performer .

 

Many thanks Thorensman. When you say qc issues you're referring to the Shure?

 

I thought the blue was bright at first but much smoother now, maybe the bronze smooths out after 70 hours or so. The bronze is likely my next cart,
so I'm interested in how this works out for you.

 

Yes, its a damn fine cartridge . But some members have noted tracking problems. But when they are right , they are very right.
A lot find the Jico stylus an upgrade .shure have had QC problems on the stylus side of things.
I use tube equipment and love the Shure V15 mk3. It may be synergy between the amp/turntable.
Hope you find the sound you are looking for, it's out there, believe me.

 

Bronze sounds great to me. have found it to be an excellent tracker. What sort of tracking issues we talking about? Curious.

 

Agreed!

 

No, they're definitely not inherently bright. If a cartridge with a fine-line (line-contact) stylus is "bright" even when broken-in and loaded according to its specs, it's because the manufacturer chose to voice it that way.

 

I have had a Bronze for over 4 years now. First; on a Rega RP1, & over the past 14 months on a George Merrill PolyTable with the Jelco SA-750e Tonearm.
I love it! Never has there ever been a tracking problem - on either table. And; the sound is balanced, at least to my ears. Not too bright. Everyone is different, however. ☺

 

I love my bronze. Funnily enough I was just thinking at the weekend how good it was sounding, suddenly much more alive. I've totter up the hours and I've got about 70 on it now. I don't find it overly bright but it does have a lively sound which I really like.

 

Ok, I probably shouldn't have but got the 2m black today. As with the bronze dialled it in w/ Baerwald.

O - M - G. That is all I can say. This is THE cart for me. Ok, it's a lot more expensive, certainly in comparison to the other carts I had before the bronze.

Don't get me wrong. I really liked the bronze's clarity, something I thought was lacking in the blue. But while the bronze fatigued my ears the black has the same level of clarity in the midrange but without the presence of fatiguing characteristics. Absolutely superb sound from the black.

What I have also noticed is the lack of sibilance and IGD with the black. No clue if this is due to the shibata diamond however.

Overall I am super happy with the black, and although I had to shell out some more cash for it it was definitely worth it.

So @Manimal: I do think the black overall has a more pleasing sound. And as @Thorensman said - it has a "lush" sound. Very good word to describe the sound.

Interested to hear from those of you who have gone from blue straight to black or from bronze to black and your experiences.

Thanks all!

 

I went from bronze to black when I switched from a VPI classic1 to a prime.
The bronze was very good, but the black is a noticeable step up in terms of detail and soundstage.
The only negative - the black is almost too revealing. You hear everything.
If you have a tiny speck of dirt- you will hear it.
That said- I just run the LP's through a spin clean and that usually clears it right up.

I'm curious to try MC next.

 

I've got the Bronze and found it took 20-30 hours to sound it's best.

It's very sensitive to both VTA and VTF. Run the VTF ar recommended and it's a bit bright. Run to the top of the allowable range and it's much more balanced and musical. Before I got it dialed in, I didn't think much of it. I'm thinking those who don't like it have a setup issue.

I've just ordered the KAB tonearm damper to go on my PLX-1000 and hope performance I'd further elevated.

I really really like it, but when stylus replacement time comes around, I'll probably get the black replacement.

 

Yeah I have found 1.7 VTF with the bronze to sound best.

 

Are(n't) the stylus' interchangeable with the bodies of the blue and bronze? Or rather, is(n't) this the main difference? Bodies are common? And if so, are all models of the Ortifon in this class interchangeable?

 

Red and Blue have the same body and interchangeable styli. Red becomes blue with a blue stylus. Same with bronze and black.

All the styli fit the bodies, so you could make a hybrid if you wanted- like a bronze or black stylus on a red/blue body.

 

I have a Rega RP6 with an upgraded subplatter from Groovetracer, and I have the 2M Bronze installed. Have been very happy with the 2M Bronze, but I just got a 2M Black stylus which I wanted to try out (same cartridge body for the Bronze and Black).

The 2M Black hasn't broken in yet, but the soundstage is larger than the 2M Bronze. Also, the 2M Black has a bit more detail, it sounds a bit more open, airier. I am pretty impressed with the 2M Black. On my system, everything sounded a bit darker and very warm, maybe missing a bit of snap and dynamics, and I feel that the 2M Black helps with that.

 

The three carts I run are the AT440 on an SL1200, 2M Blue on a MMF 5.3 and a Stanton EEE on a Dual 1229. I love the sound of all these units. I refuse to go down that cartridge rabbit hole anymore. I prefer to spend my money on other things that have more impact on improving sound quality.

 

I was wondering how you "dial in Baerwald" (as you put it). Does your tonearm have the exact pivot point marked on it?

 

I have the same Pioneer PLX-1000 and yesterday I bought a 2M Black. I also have a 2M Blue (and a Nagaoka MP-110) so I skipped the Bronze and went from Blue to Black.

I have maybe 2-3 hours on it only. The difference is really impressive. Not a "subtle" difference, on the contrary, it's pretty evident.

The good part:

- much more details. I'll describe it by saying that with the Black I hear things through the speakers that I could only hear with headphones.

- sound is clearer. It was muffle with the Blue in comparison. That "take a blanket off" cliche works just fine.

- much more separation. Instruments don't mix themselves, each of them have its place.

- more stereo separation and larger soundstage.

- much better highs. I bought the 2M Blue because I sensed roll off with the Nag. The Blue is better but a bit too bright. The Black has better highs than both. Easier to distinguish but not the bright. Cymbals sound like I'm playing them.

- more real. What I said about cymbals could be said also about the whole drum set and all instruments.

- more "presence". The music is much more "in your face", it reaches me more. Actually it flows from the speakers, grabs me by the throat and shakes me yelling "listen to me!" and I can't help hearing all of that intense sound.

- I absolutely noticed nothing worse in noise floor, clicks and pops. I read a lot of reports about it but not in my experience. However, maybe more "whoosh" from the friction between stylus and record groove if I crank it up in an empty groove. I need to try more records.

- No mistracking, IGD or sibilance so far.

The bad part:

- All this presence and detail seems to make some music more aggressive and fatiguing.

- All this separation sometimes sound weird. It feels like I miss something to glue the music back together.

These two negative aspects will maybe be eliminated if the cartridge break in and/or if my ears and brain get used to the new sound I have now. I don't know. I'm also having a very tiring weekend and I was already feeling ear fatigue before this new cart, it was difficult to use headphones in a flight I had a couple of days ago, so maybe when I calm down the music will settle down too. Let's see.

 

I installed it a few weeks ago. Listen about an hour a night. Love it. Absolutely love it. This was my first upgrade for my project carbon since I got it in 2014. Very pleased. Night and day to the Red.

 

I'm thinking of skipping Blue and Bronze and going straight to Ortofon Black from Red myself but am wondering if it's overkill in my modest setup? Where is the point of diminishing returns? I know that's a crazy question this hobby...lol. I listen to mainly older stuff...classic/folk rock, R&B and jazz. Here's my setup:
-KEF LS50 Wireless speakers
-Pro-Ject Debut Carbon DC Esprit SB
-Lounge Audio LCR MKIII w/silver upgrade
-Audio Sensibility Impact SE phono cable (turntable to phono preamp)
-DH Labs Silver Sonic Air Matrix RCA (phono preamp to KEFs)
-My rack is a Pangea Audio Vulcan TT and the turntable is on top of it on a maple block with Herbies grungebuster Dots and spikes underneath

Any other cartridges to consider? I think after a cartridge upgrade I'll probably be upgradibg my turntable next to something like a Pioneer PLX-1000. I want a cartridge to grow with.

Thanks for any input.

 

I have the Black and the Bronze. I think they would be a bit of overkill on your system. The black is famous for bringing out any flaws that you may have in your system.

You might check out the Blue and spend a little bit of time with it first, then maybe...

 

Thanks for the input,

Yeah, I was looking at prices and it does seem a bit overkill pricewise in my setup unless I can score a deal used. The fact that all I need is a stylus swap with the Blue helps too.

 

Started with the 2M bronze. It takes some sound to break-in but sounded great. Was really good with older scratchy records. i bent the stylus tried to bend it back and it broke. So purchased the 2M black. Really liked the sound buts sounds a bit bright to me. After 2 years now considering returning to the 2M Bronze.