Discussion in 'Music Corner' started by MilesSmiles, Jun 14, 2013.
Ok, I've got to cop to that one.
It's like poetry... it rhymes.
It took someone fudging with the music of King Crimson to make you love them again? Strange.
Not so strange. King Crimson, Jethro Tull, ELP...all bands I listened to in the late 80s and early 90s when I was high school and college, but hadn't since. It was only Yes I've stuck with from my prog phase.
Steven Wilson's 5.1 mixes being released at the same time my wife and I bought our first house and setting up a home theater/listening room let me discover these albums I loved as a young guy but got away from. The surround mixes, hi res original mixes, lavish books - I love it. Meanwhile, my Tull Chrysalis and Crimson E.G. CDs are still in a box in my crawl space.
Now that I've got all of his surround remixes I've found things that are new to me that I absolutely love (XTC, Steve Hackett solo), am still warming up to (Gentle Giant, Caravan, Hawkwind), and reminded I loved all along (Simple Minds, Tears For Fears) but never owned.
Yes. As far as I'm aware, all the reissued vinyl uses the original master. It's why I didn't buy them!
Well said! It is fun when a well done reissue series rekindles your love for an artist.
I don't see it as fudging. Just shedding new light on works of art that in turn has helped me to appreciate the details I may have missed the first time around.
The SW remixes brought home to me what a grand job they did first time around.
However, having a listen through again to the remix and related freshly mixed outtakes (it's been awhile), I have over stated things and been unfairly harsh with regards to In the Court.
In general, things such as flutes and acoustic guitar sound more natural and intimate. You hear the breath and lip whisps of Ian blowing the flute for example. In the original mix the flute has a sound/tone that kind of hides that making it distinctive and different to other flute recordings from the time. All part of the appeal of the original mix.
Hearing this album for the first time back in 1995/96 made me take up flute and sax, so it's always been something i've focused on when listening to it.
I'd say the remix lacks the combined distinctive sound of the original mix, some quirks of sound that made it different and stand out, but the remix is an interesting, generally more natural sounding listen.
Have you checked out the surround mix?
Not since around the time the In the Court box set came out, not able to now.
whew lucky the original mixes are included for those that dont like the remixes
I actually think it would be better for many members of this forum if the stereo remixes weren't included. The main point of what SW does is the surround mix. They are always done with care, and are tremendous fun. He and the Pink Floyd team do a fantastic job. If you want to hear jarring WTF surround mixes, check out Tommy and Quadrophenia. The SW stereo mixes are a byproduct which I suppose help the label resell something to people that don't have or care for surround.
All of the original mixes of vintage albums that SW has worked on are already fantastic - he's not swaggering in claiming to fix anything. Although, the upcoming Chicago II will be a stereo only first.
I always rip the original mix, stereo remix, and extras for iTunes in the car, they're all great to listen to. However, at home, I love the hell out of 5.1 mixes, and the completist in me loves having the hi res original mix in my possession.
Can you cite Steven Wilson stating that his "stereo mixes are a byproduct"? What's your source for this claim?
As for "it would be better for many members of this forum if the stereo remixes weren't included", I highly doubt there will be any 5.1-only releases. This group of "many members" will simply have to do what the rest of us do, i.e. decide whether or not to buy these releases.
I like SW's work (both 5.1 and stereo). I don't have 5.1 in my "man cave", and even if I did, sometimes I like to listen to music without being stuck in a chair (to get the full 5.1 effect). Sometimes I listen to music on my headphones. I listen to the stereo remixes as well as "old mix" vinyl as the mood takes me, and seeing claims like "SW stereo mixes are a byproduct" is getting REALLY old.
I too remember this quote from back when SW started working with Fripp on Crimson remixes. SW's statement was something along the lines of "I did the stereo remixes to help me understand what do to with the multichannel remixes, but people liked the stereo remixes so much that we decided to release them alongside the 5.1 mixes." I don't think the stereo remixes are an "afterthought" at this point, but they were apparently secondary to Wilson and Fripp's original intentions.
Personally, I like the stereo remixes and listen to them frequently when a new release appears, but I inevitably revert back to the original stereo mix for "serious" headphone listening.
I guess the thing to remember here is "your mileage may vary", and that one's own personal view is not, and should not be, dogma for everyone else.
I would be surprised to see anyone suggest that the SW stereo remix of Larks' Tongues in Aspic is in any way an "afterthought" or a "byproduct". Much criticism has been leveled at SW's remix of In the Court of the Crimson King. I can't speak to that, I only have the vinyl and the 30th Anniversary remaster. In contrast, LTiA benefits from a bit more emphasis on Jamie Muir's (wonderful) percussion, better sounding vocals, etc. There's also the "alternate version" of the album, which is a great listen, and a lot of fun. Is this an "afterthought" or "byproduct"? Don't think so.
As for the original mix, I still love that too, and have it on vinyl, twice. But for Wetton era KC, the SW stereo remixes are generally my "go to" versions.
An Update on Steven Wilson’s Remix WorkStevenWilsonHQ.com »
I'm with you. These packages are all about the surround mixes. Particularly when you consider the kinds of bands/albums that Wilson tackles, with these dense, elaborate arrangements, they benefit a lot from the three dimensional widescreen presentation of a 5.1, allowing listeners to unpack all of the little details. I know that 5.1 isn't for everyone, but it was like a dream come true when Wilson started tackling all of this stuff. If I didn't have a surround set up, I doubt very much that I would be interested in just the stereo remixes. With some rare exceptions (like the rather wonky mix of Aqualung), the original mixes sound just fine and are not in particular need of an update.
@scompton found a great link, but I'm just talking about myself as a listener/consumer.
I was really upset twenty years ago with The Who remixes. All I wanted were nice CD remasters with all the relevant A/B-sides and studio outtakes with all the original artwork. Instead, I now have several copies of each album to have all the mix variations, and there still doesn't exist a cohesive effort to gather everything. For a long time, those wonky remixes were the only things in print, carrying into the iTunes era.
These releases SW is involved with are great bang for the buck. Yes, KC, XTC - original mixes in hi res for that price in an attractive package - I've spent that much for a single album download at HD Tracks. Plus all the archival stuff AND surround!
I think there are some (not pointing fingers specifically) who buy these to pit the included CD of the stereo remix against their prized first first press UK LP or DCC CD in a cage match to see who will arise triumphant. Me, I'm more like "hot diggity, more things to listen to!"
So, initially a byproduct, but clearly no longer "just" a byproduct.
Lets not forget the needledrop original stereo and mono mix in the box set of In the Court.
I believe you. Having said that, is there a source/link to a quote where SW mentions his interest in KC ends with the 80s band? I've never seen it and would love to read that in context.
I got nuthin'.
I read it ages ago while SW was still in the process of remixing. Coulda been from anywhere.
You sound a little bit like the "stereo only" fans who wish surround was not included on their disc of the package. They think it takes away something from the stereo efforts, and adds to the cost something they do not wish to partake in. Be glad for all the riches offered to you.
He also declined to mix further ELP albums stating that he only does these mixes for albums he likes. Certain member(s) of ELP were insulted at his lack of interest from BSS to Love Beach, lol.
My understanding is that a sample remix of Tarkus was sent to Emerson for his views, and it got approved. Then, when it was released, Emerson was very upset that a bonus track had been included. Yet the bonus track was included in the sample, and it came out that Emerson hadn't even listened to the sample disc.
So Wilson stopped work on ELP and that was why Trilogy was remixed by Jacko.
This is all from memory, so happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
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