King Crimson - "Starless - Live in Europe" box set confirmed

Why are you reading things that weren't there into what I posted? The answer really is probably as simple as what was posted earlier -- the actual live flubs were recorded over. Read through this forum to get a sense of where I'm coming from. There's an awful lot of "conspiracy theory" that seems to get talked about whenever artists reissue their work. "Why didn't Page do that?" "Why didn't Page give us this?" "Why does Page keep ripping us off?" OMG -- enough already! Seems like a huge waste of time done under the guise of curiosity. Seriously, "Fracture" was recorded over 40 years ago. Fripp's a smart guy, but do you think he had any clue at the time where his legacy would wind up and that massive reexaminations would be done as often as people change underwear? He was not thinking of any of that, and as a result didn't care what he lost or recorded over.

 

The Grateful Dead overdubbed the tapes of their European tour in 1972. When the box set of those tapes was mixed in 2012, some overdubs were taken away, some weren't, and Jeffrey Norman provided information about it. I'm sure the Dead were not forseeing a massive reexamination of that tour taking place 40 years later.
"Seems like a huge waste of time done under the guise of curiosity ", you say. Well, I would like to know, that's all, I never made a fuss about this, or said anything about being ripped-off, in fact, I love the Starless box set. It's just curiosity, and I considered that a "King Crimson - "Starless - Live in Europe" box set confirmed" thread was a proper place to share this curiosity. If you're not interested, it's prefectly alright. Case closed for me.

 

What another band does has nothing to do with KC, at all. I have no problem with curiosity. However, you and others are asking the same questions over and over again with different words as if you feel that the answer will all of a sudden appear. If you really want the answer, take my earliest suggestion and ask someone who either knows OR has a quick way of finding out (ie., Sid Smith).

 

Thanks for the tip! Diane at DGM said they could send me a replacement box. Unfortunately Amazon UK already dispatched my replacement, but I guess that just means I can open the one I have now and throw the new one up on eBay when it gets here. Working my way through it now, will post my thoughts soon.

 

Just a few notes from scanning around the files after I ripped them to my PC (warning: spoilers ahead):

- Yes, the Night Watch solo from Zurich is still edited into the Glasgow performance, a la The Great Deceiver. Does anybody have the Glasgow download to confirm that it has the original solo? David Singleton's boxset notes say the Zurich edit was the only mix available, but Sid's blurb on the download page says the download has the original solo intact, so which is true?

- As others have said, LoMD 1 cuts immediately into the beginning of the "The Mincer" album version, without the audience patch filling in the gaps before and after so there is 20 or so seconds of music missing. Sounds pretty good to me, and the complete audience-patched version from the 40th is on disc 26 so there's really nothing to complain about here.

- The Mainz audience matrix is done very well, giving us for the first time the first 30 or so seconds of The Savage, which were missing from the SBD recording (it's not much musically but still cool). Actually after the intro I can barely detect any added ambience from the audience recording and it sounds pretty similar to the Club release, which is a-OK by me.

- Three previously unreleased 8-10 minute improvs included on the Blue Tapes portion of the set. Hooray!

- Udine sounds exactly like the DGM Live download, which sucks because I thought the upgrade they did of Guts on My Side for the SABB 40th (with two different audience sources matrixed) sounded much, much better. Maybe they only had the second source for the one Guts track and not the rest? The 40th matrix of Guts is on one of the DVDs, FWIW.

- The Arlington show sounds like it comes from a slightly better source than the DGM Live download (at least judging by the samples). It does appear some noise reduction has been applied on Mainz (you can tell because the hiss level rises and falls depending on how loud the music is - maybe this was the work of a bootlegger), but the performance is incredible - it's great to hear the rest of the gig, and yes it's as hot as the rest which we all know and love.

- The first DVD appears to be exactly the same as the 40th S&BB disc, right down to the menus. The Central Park video on the Blu-ray is from a different source: less film grain, no "King Crimson" title at the beginning and slightly different framing. The ORTF video looks a little less washed out than before. In fact it looks like someone messed with the contrast on both of the videos to make them "pop" more. Not crazy about the results, but at least Central Park finally syncs with the audio.

Overall, a very impressive package. I already got the go-ahead to frame the Zurich poster in our living room, and it was a lot of fun reading through all the memories of those lucky enough to have attended the shows in the 1970s. I obviously haven't had time to go through everything, but just from sampling a bit I think this may be the best set yet. Well done again, DGM.

Edit: Forgot to mention that the Pittsburgh '74 stereo and quad mixes are indeed the same broadcast versions that have circulated since the 70s, albeit in much better quality.

 

Four including Dieburg II - ok it's under 7 minutes but it's still a winner!

 

Oh, there's always something to complain about! I mentioned it previously, but that patch out of "The Mincer" (disc 26) sounds weird. It's more complete for sure, and it may just be the fidelity shift, but for "absolute historical accuracy" (as Singleton calls this bonus) I would've preferred the bootleg source for the entirety of the improv. Unless of course, the tape ran out on that operator as well! (I know that's not the case with the multitracks in this instance, but I always thought that that specific anxiety was the origin of the phrase "The Law of Maximum Distress," and its certainly the effect of the "Mincer" ending on SABB.)

 

Yes, it sounds to me like they went into Law..Pt 2 at least a beat or two too early.

 

I've always wanted to hear the entire improv from the audience (boot) source.
Of all the recordings I've found over the years, never Zurich.

I appreciate the patch, but the full recording please.

 

I've got a query in to Sid about this. Stay tuned.

 

Enjoying this box very much. I have a question about menus for DVD-A 2. It says there are three choices for playback, but my player keeps defaulting to the 'MLP Lossless '. Any ideas on what's going on? The booklet, BTW, says there is only a multi-channel and stereo option for playback of this disc. I'm playing it back as recommended with an Oppo BDP connected via analog outputs.

 

I've been listening to the November 3, 1973 Jahrhunderthalle concert download. It's bootleg quality, but quite aceptable. "Improv II" is a must-hear!

 

A little late to the party here, but can anybody recommend an online retailer who has these for < $200 a pop?

 

Going for $154.79 USD from Amazon.UK as of Friday.

 

Sent you a PM about an extra one I have.

 

I've decided to go through the entire box in order, enjoying and (in most cases) re-discovering the virtues of each concert. Right now, I'm being stunned by the quality of the French TV set. Marvelous.

 

I just received mine from Amazon.UK this weekend. The cardboard shipping box was partially torn open, but fortunately no damage was done. Others have reported issues with the way Amazon.UK shipped their box set. Buyer beware.

 

True, but this happens from US shippers also.

 

Finally started listening to these yesterday. Live "Cat Food"? Yes, please!

 

I find the studio version impossible to top, but these in-your-face live renditions work ok, specially the one from Zürich, where the song is placed in the middle of the set. As an encore, I find it somewhat insufficient.

 

Just to confirm, the DGM download of Glasgow does indeed contain the original Glasgow Night Watch solo, whereas the Glasgow version on the new box has the Zurich solo edited in as per The Great Deceiver.

 

This may have already been answered, but I've missed parts of the thread.

Was the solo replaced because it was felt the Zurich solo was better, or is the DGM download of a lesser sound quality, or what?

 

I compared both a few days ago, and couldn't find no difference! It was late at night, maybe I was too drowsy

 

It seems there were some technical problems with the Glasgow performance (mellotron issues, maybe?). On the Amsterdam version you can hear the mellotron malfunctioning in the middle of the piece, so David Cross reaches for the electric piano (to good results, by the way!).

 

I think the Zurich show is brought in during the harmonics bit (after '...the squad of troopers standing fast' - actually is there a beat missing here? ) until the end of the guitar solo. On the Glasgow show clearly RF is having problems of some sort during this passage, prompting Wetton's laughter a few times.