L'Art Du Son vinyl cleaning solution degrading

Discussion in 'Audio Hardware' started by fmuakkassa, Dec 7, 2014.

  1. fmuakkassa

    fmuakkassa Dr. M Thread Starter

    Location:
    Ohio
    I have been using L'Art Du Son record cleaning fluid for years on my Loricraft Machine and have been happy with the results. Lately I have noticed that the solution does not last long after mixing and start degrading (see photo)

    I use glass colored bottles as instructed and mix it with RO/DI water.
    Has anybody else encountered this issue?
    Does the solution loose it's effectiveness?
    I hate to keep re-mixing and wasting a lot of fluid. Maybe I need to look at another product.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. Joel Cairo

    Joel Cairo Video Gort Staff

    Location:
    Portland, Oregon
    I think it depends upon the age of the solution-- older versions of the product actually had a "Good through..." date on the label. I tried using a batch that was "Good through 2012" in 2014, and the results were not great. In short, I got to clean a batch of records all over again.

    I've noticed that the batch I bought just recently no longer has that date on the label. My guess would be that I've got about about 2 years before I need to replace it. I suppose if nothing else, it will encourage me to clean my newly-acquired records in a more timely manner!

    - Kevin
     
  3. EdogawaRampo

    EdogawaRampo Forum Resident

    WOW...I have not had that happen, not yet anyway. Keep it in a dark closet away from sunlight, mixed with purified water...
     
    crispi likes this.
  4. Pancat

    Pancat Senior Member

    Location:
    Still EU. For now.
    Nope, I've not had this problem. Keep mine in cupboard
     
  5. PIEP

    PIEP Well-Known Member

    Location:
    Firenze, Italy
    On old LP ( '70 รท '80) good results with dish washing liquid ... ( liquid dish cleaner)
     
    arisinwind and The Pinhead like this.
  6. Dubmart

    Dubmart Forum Resident

    Location:
    Bristol, UK
    Sunlight seems to be a real catalyst for L'Art Du Son to degrade like that when mixed, I know someone who had a couple of litres go off quite quickly when they left it in direct sunlight, personally I only ever mix a small amount, I use purified water, keep it away from sunlight and I keep the undiluted liquid in it's original bottle in darkness inside a box, so far no problems. I think it might be a couple of years since they last put a best before date on the bottles, I did notice they no longer bother, but couldn't swear to when it was.
     
  7. Artyom Yakovlev

    Artyom Yakovlev Active Member

    I got a bottle of the concentrate in October and was very suspicious that it didn't have a "good through" label, and all instructions were only in German - not a single word in English. I've also noticed that the smell of the new liquid is different: it smells of soap. However, the smell is even better than the old one.
    Could you take a photo of your bottle? Wanna make sure that mine is not counterfeit.
     
  8. I have a bottle that I have had for about two years.
    I was mixing it as per the instructions, using Reverse Osmosis water.
    I decanted to a smaller bottle to make record cleaning easier, however it started to grow some form of black algae.
    The next batch I mixed, I bought a light tight bottle and kept it in a dark cupboard, only decanting what I needed.
    The growth started again in the dark which proved that it was not light that was causing the problem. I stopped using it as I was worried some residue may have been left on the vinyl that may cause problems at a later date. So far this has not been the case as I have gone through and cleaned each record with RO water to try to ensure the surface of the record is free of L'Art du Son.
    Since then I have used a detergent available for my local hardware, the reason I picked it was because it was the only cleaner that would remove a grease stain from a T-shirt. I clean with this detergent and then rinse well with RO water on my VPI RCM. This has worked very well for the last two or three years.

    I still had one third of the L'Art du Son in the original bottle it was supplied in, which is a dark brown colour.
    This question came up on another forum today, this prompted me to check on the remaining amount in the bottle.
    Basically there a lump of brown/black algae in the remaining liquid.
    I inspected the bottle and mine has both English and German on the label, it also has a label which is stuck on the front of the bottle as though it were and afterthought, the label says good through 2015......that gives it 3hrs 28mins and I guess I should throw it away..........
     
  9. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I keep mine in the fridge. I have a new bottle that I bought about a month ago with no expiry date and noticed there was some bits of dark stuff floating around. When I shake it, the stuff pretty much dissolves.

    I also have another bottle about 25% left that expired in 2012 in the fridge with NO black stuff floating around in it

    I'm going to try and get in touch with the manufacturer and see what they say about it all. This isn't the first time this has come up and I'd like to know what their official line on this is.
     
  10. Artyom Yakovlev

    Artyom Yakovlev Active Member

    I've decided to take and post some pictures (I'm sorry that they're so big but at least they're quite detailed).

    [​IMG]

    This is the remaining solution that I got from friends in June in a plastic bottle. It was an emergency, as I broke the glass bottle with my own solution made of Okki Nokki concentrate. I just got the solution, not the concentrate - so I can't say anything about the quality of the water. What I can say is that in June this solution was completely clean. In July I started noticing these greenish-black fungi (or algae) floating in the solution. Now it looks really gross. The smell hasn't changed, it's kind of sweet, quite pleasant.

    [​IMG]

    This is the concentrate I bought in October. Instructions are in German only, there's no expiry date. There is some white residue in the bottom which disappears when I shake up the bottle. It has a very strong soapy smell.

    [​IMG]
    This is the solution I made by myself in November (250 ml of ordinary distilled water from a car store and 5 ml of the concentrate from the bottle shown above). It's almost clean with small white particles and a couple of dark particles in the bottom of the jar (they weren't there in November) and has a soapy smell.

    What I don't understand is why two solutions (from June and from November) behave in a different way and smell different. Is it possible that the manufacturers decided to change the formula of the concentrate?

    P.S. Both solutions and the concentrate have been kept in a pitch-dark cupboard with the temperature slightly below normal room temperature.
     
    Last edited: Jan 2, 2015
  11. GreatTone

    GreatTone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Falls Church, VA
    I tried this stuff a few years ago and within a week my entire bottle had that black debris in it. Since it also reeked of cheap detergent, I just returned it and purchased a big bottle of Disk Doctor Miracle Record Cleaner. One bottle lasts a really long time as it's also a concentrate, and after a couple years using it, I don't think I'll be switching to anything else.
     
  12. Artyom Yakovlev

    Artyom Yakovlev Active Member

    When I got the first L'Art du Son solution in June, I really liked the effect of it - it was much better than the cleaning solution supplied with my Okki Nokki machine. It doesn't contain alcohol, which is very good IMO. That's why I bought my own bottle of the concentrate - only to find that (for some reason) it doesn't contain an expiry date or instructions in English and has a different smell.

    The records that I cleaned back in June with my first solution look OK (fingers crossed).
     
  13. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    @Artyom Yakovlev That's the same bottle I have. I bought mine in Jun 2014. I have expired bottle with some solution left that I bought in 2009. I just has a sniff of both and they smell the same. But you bought yours in October so perhaps there was a manufacturing change at some point??

    For now I'm using up the rest of my Okki Nokki fluid. I don't want to use the L'Art Du Son stuff until we get to the bottom of this.

    I can understand fluid going off but to buy something in June, or in your case October, and it become unusable by December isn't right. This isn't cheap fluid either.

    I did email these guys to see if they could provide any information: http://loricraftaudio.com/

    They're closed until next week but I'll report back once I hear back.
     
    Artyom Yakovlev likes this.
  14. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Anyone understands why they recommend glass bottles? I use small plastic bottles that in my case last around 2 weeks and seems to work just fine.
     
  15. Artyom Yakovlev

    Artyom Yakovlev Active Member

    How would you describe the smell? Sweet and mild, or soapy (my GF says it smells sort of like laundry powder)?
    I believe the solution should be foamy with the smell of soap or a detergent. You see, I didn't make the first solution (with the sweet smell) myself, and I'd be able to meet with a friend who gave me the solution only after January 12th - 13th. Perhaps it's the smell of water that he uses. Or maybe the concentrate was not particularky fresh. Anyway, those huge lumps of fungi or algae are unacceptable.

    That's great! Feel free to share my pictures and messages as well. And please, do report back.
     
  16. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I compared my pre-2012 and 2014 concentrated solutions. They both look the same; bluish. The smell is very similar. The 2014 solution does have stronger smell but it is newer. I would classify the smell as soapy like detergent and not like say hand washing soap or dish washing soap. The smell isn't as strong as that. Of course it's hard to say if mine smells worse or better than yours over the internet! :)

    I make my cleaning solution in very small batches of 100 or 150ml. I do have to make up a new cleaning solution more often but i find it keeps better this way as it never sits around for very long.

    The black algae pictures you posted are extreme and I've never seen that. I've seen the small specs of black stuff like in the last picture from the concentrate bottle.

    I hope they do get back to me when they re-open though. I think we really need to put this to rest once and for all as it's come up before and no one seems to have a definite answer.
     
  17. GreatTone

    GreatTone Forum Resident

    Location:
    Falls Church, VA
    I would guess the smell is Downey fabric softener, which is blue, and very cheap, and nothing I would want on my records.
     
  18. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    I believe they recommend you keep the concentrate in the brown glass bottle as it provides protection against light.
     
  19. Robert C

    Robert C Sound Archivist

    Location:
    London, UK
    Is this still a problem? I'm contemplating getting it when my ON fluid runs out.
     
  20. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    I've never had problems and have used it for like 2 years now. Mix it in a rather small bottle (like 250ml) so you always have a rather fresh mix. Go for it :) It's great!
     
  21. Robert C

    Robert C Sound Archivist

    Location:
    London, UK
    Glass bottle in the fridge?
     
  22. dianos

    dianos Forum Resident

    Location:
    Scandinavia
    Plastic in a closed shelf. As I understood it sunlight is what to be aware of.
     
  23. eddiel

    eddiel Forum Resident

    Location:
    Toronto, Canada
    A few tips, keep the the fluid in the original bottle in a cool dark place (I put mine the fridge as that is the only place that remains cool in my house year round and not subject to sunlight!) and only mix a small portion as needed. I've had some degrading in the original bottle over time but I have not experienced the level of degrading others have. For example, I had one bottle that I forgot about (I moved and lost track of where I put it!) that I still have and it's well over 5 years old. Is there some degrading? Yes as you can see it in the bottle, but it's a small amount.

    I contacted the manufacturer about the degrading last year. They said the degrading in the original bottle can be filtered out and won't harm the rest of the fluid.

    If it's good enough for Loriscraft I'm sure it's good enough for anyone else. :)

    I'm currently using AIVS fuilds as I wanted to try those out. I like them but they are more expensive and I also don't find they clean any better or worse than L'Art Du Son or the Mofi solutions. Next I'm trying a home made solution. If that works as good as the others I'll stick with that as it's cheaper otherwise I'll be moving back to L'Art Du Son because your money goes further (at least based on the prices I can get it for).
     
    Squiggsy68 likes this.
  24. royzak2000

    royzak2000 Forum Resident

    Location:
    London,England
    Never had a problem in some four years of use. It stays in it's small bottle in a dark cupboard and I make up small batches that can sit in my listening room for weeks.
    Wonder if the problems have anything to do with climate or central heating.
     
    Pancat likes this.
  25. Pancat

    Pancat Senior Member

    Location:
    Still EU. For now.
    Pretty much my experience with it. In addition, I'd like to ask users here if they do a rinse cycle after vacuuming the L'ADS off. I know the company recommend this with manuals such as the spinclean but I don't think they do for vacuum machines. What do you guys do?
     

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