Led Zeppelin reissues - what went wrong?

What I think is , "wow!". A couple of years ago i was having this "argument" with a fellow poster/friend over at Amazon who for the dear sweet life of him, couldn't hear all the "in-the-red" parts that were taking place on LZ II. The second portion of the track which follows the percussion/drum portion was ALWAYS confounding to me. i could never figure out why all of a sudden the crash cymbals in particular, had a horrible sizzling distortion. But not just that, the "boom-boom" chords that followed the drum role after the percussion solo...the tape almost sounded like it was underwater. There is similar "in-the-red" on other tracks (Lemon Song is a standout from start to finish) but the second half of WLL has always been particularly annoying. Your remix helps the problem, not completely, but significantly. It was great being "walked" through this

 

I have all the CDs
I like the remasters...I like the Diamantes, Sidore and Marino's....
You get into hair splitting with what's best with each thing, but IMO all these are excellent.
For the new remasters you can reasonably claim not optimum selections for some of the bumus discs. My number one complaint would be the quality of the cardboard CD cases. I've torn more than one of them getting the CD out of the case.....I'm all about earth friendly, I'll accept cardboard, but use better quality for F___sake...

 

Thanks... yea there's some distortion in the FLAC's that were sent to me. Not sure if that happened during the dump to digital, the dump to safety way back when, or was recorded like that.

What I hear in the individual FLAC"s sounds to me like under biasing, tho it could be something in the digital conversion.

But the distortion I hear in the released mixes - thru the 2014 Davis remasters - sounds typical of mix bus overload on an older console - typical of what they had at A&R where Page and Kramer mixed it. I used to fix that stuff years ago.... when you drove it too hard it'd sound very similar to how WLL ends up in those official releases they keep remastering.

I sent my mix to the head of the sound company I worked for years ago and he said almost exactly the same thing - he'd try to explain how it sounded distorted to him, and no one else seemed to hear it. The one IHeart DJ I used to work with back in Pittsburgh (DVE to burghers) also mentioned never noticing it until he heard it without the distortion. Now he says he can't un-hear it.

Again - thanks for taking a listen and the kind words. I took a bit of time to get right. The raw tracks - well, it's amazing what Kramer and Page were able to do back then...

 

You're very welcome. What's odd to me is how the "in-the-red" issue is prevalent in the drums of a few tracks on the album...Lemon Song, Thank You, LLM, Heartbreaker (especially during the "rock-out" part and then in the final verse to the end)...and yet, it sounds pretty nicely balanced for the drum solo on Moby Dick. That track would have been an out and out unlistenable disaster, otherwise.

 

The thing with Page was that he liked to hop around a bit - engineers and studios. Some out of necessity - they were on the road a lot. But one thing that always sticks with me is what both Andy and Glyn have stated - when asked for a production credit - "No" was the answer.

This takes me to the fact that when Page started out he was a session player. Many of the guys of his era - including Big Jim Sullivan (Page was Little Jim) always mentioned how they'd be doing a part - putting all they had into it - and the word from the "other side of the glass" was always, "That was lovely - now how 'bout one with a bit more feeling? Take 39..."

I think after a point, he just thought that when he got to be the "artist" it was payback time...

Another thing that occurs during mixing - ear fatigue. Kinda like being at a perfume counter - after a while you just dull your sense of smell. So you keep trying to get that same aural experience that you had on the first listen.
Happens to all the mix guys - even Bruce Swedien - Led Zeppelin II - 1988 Technidisc CD with Different Mastering

 

I think that's a good point, but I think the main reason for Jimmy's producer credit is that he had seen so many producers take credit for a band's "sound" (e.g., Shel Talmy, Mickie Most, Andrew Oldham) that he wanted to make sure that a similar fate did not happen to Led Zeppelin.

 

Oh yea - that's so true. Been in a lot of bands that that happened to. I really don't blame him.

 

Also - I just listened to the vu vid mix thing and then listened to what's coming off my DAW and the WAV mix I used to make the vids. It's got a lot less artifacts that occur in the lossy compression thing of those MP4's . I'm not real golden ears kinda guy, but even I can hear it. I can't release a lossless of it, but I'd have no issue having someone at Rhino or whatever take it - no strings - and do whatever. I get so many requests for that.

But I doubt that'd happen...

 

Here's one for ya DK - my mix with just the end and just the rhy instruments -

http://www.ajawamnet.com/ajawam2/lz-wll-rhyend.mp3
Listen to this on some decent speakers if you can - something with some balls to it. Again - it's a crappy MP3 but you'll get the idea.

It was not easy to get the drums to sound like this: The raw stereo pair of drums sounds really funky. But notice that on mine I got floor tom on the left as he rolls down the toms and at the end where he does the big blues ending fill...

Also note that at the end, the snare rattle... so I'm guessing they cut that as a trio rhy session and the bass from the amps did the typical sympathetic noisy thing.

 

My wife just mentioned it sounds like audio crack for baby-boomers...

 

This, to me, is pretty mesmerizing; besides being absorbed by the backing track itself (even though I've heard the song a million and one times), the drums-besides sounding "cleaner"- are enveloping...that's the best word I can find for it. Nice job. You have impressive ears.

 

Thanks... I was hoping you'd like it. They be some bad ass musicians... just an amazing band.

 

Have played them both and Ill have to say that the reissue may actually be the better product - its not as loud that's one thing and that helps with the messiness of Were Gonna Groove for example

All the discs are dead quiet and flat and etc etc - the mastering is excellent - not brittle or harsh (OTH there is a little bit more sibilance on Poor Tom than my original )

The original I have is a West German Aalsdorf and the reissue was purchased in Amoeba in Hollywood.

It is semi frequently on special at Pop market and other bulk merchants so if one does pop up for less than 50 bucks (or so) then grab it

 

So true....picked up a sweet Houses of the Holy that was was a Robert Ludwig in the dead wax for $9.99. The album was mint and the cover had a name written on it and was a little beat up...no worries can always replace the cover. Ironically there was another copy that was double the price and was in great condition but was an 80's repress....will take the RL pressing all day!

 

I find Led Zeppelin IV, the Davis re-Masters in Hi-Res download, to be very thin sounding with a poor low end. It is very disappointing and overly bright! Contrastingly, Led Zeppelin II has a really full sound to it and is very enjoyable. This is also a Davis remaster in Hi-Res.

 

Hopefully I can rouse some interest in this thread whilst somehow supporting a silent, vibes based campaign to get Chad at Acoustic Sounds to dig up any useable 45rpm lacquers or better yet have Bernie, KG, SH or another top gun cut new ones to press up the whole damn LZ catalogue again!

In the mean time the pandemic has given me time to order nice archival quality Canadian made 4mil sleeves, some more rice paper inners for records in my collection that need a cleaning and a bit of TLC. Which brings me back to the Zep.

OK, we weren't promised any grail-like audiophile, blow your mind, all analogue qualities with the 2014 reissues and I do have some specific complaints - 'Since I've been loving you' - where's the bass?? Overall they are OK and luckily I have a VG second press and EX 77' GP press of II and another EX+ 77' press of III, and a surprisingly clean NM Cdn HOTH that are all very rockin'. (Still looking for a clean AAA LZ1 that does not break the bank... sigh.).

After cleaning the 2014 records however, I have listened to them intently in my new basement setup and have noticed noise in all the records associated with II and III. You know that snap crackle and pop just enough to annoy the careful listener type. I may have overlooked (overlistened?) the noisy aspect of my discs when I first got them and thought: "Oh well at least I have some AAA versions that I really enjoy." But the fact remains that my 2014 LZ II deluxe, and 2 disc III lps all have pops and ticks in the background even after a cleaning and wash. BTW, my 2014 3 disc I and 2 disc HOTH are very quiet. Oh I checked and compared the 2014 I and II with some new Tone Poets and my finer Music Matters pressings which are all dead quiet to ensure it wasn't my gear...

So what gives? Are these one off bad pressings which can be replaced with new ones that are in good working order or are there a whole slew of noisy 2014s out there...

So I put this to you fine folks: Has anyone purchased 2014 pressings of LZ I and II recently (like in the last 2-3 years) and noticed that they were dead quiet? Have you returned any defective LZ 2014 pressings and received a flawless replacement? The reason I ask is that the prices for quiet copies of I and II, that are AAA and NM are beyond insane. Don't get me started on how many dodgy LZ II pressings I had to encounter before I found a decent copy... Anyway keep up your aural adventures! Cheers, Blunosr

 

I actually did get a few of these recently (II, III & Coda - I had bought Physical Graffiti upon release), and truth be told, they're all dead quiet - almost zero noise. A tiny bit here and there that goes away after I run a brush over the record, but that's it.

 

I got the debut and Coda, all 6 lps play quiet.

 

Sweet! Thanks slop101 and Slick Willie. Good to know that if multiple cleanings don't work I can get a couple of 1 disc versions. Still hoping (dreaming) for the next AAA campaign.

 

(Very) late to the party but would like to comment. Found the CD version of the 2015 remaster of PG in a shop last summer, and since I didn't already have a copy of the album I decided to grab it, thinking it would sound awesome.

What I heard instead sounded as if I set my EQ totally flat across the board, while listening thru a pair of cheap earbuds. So bad in fact that a few songs in I took the disc out and inspected it to make sure I had a legit copy and not a bootleg.

I expected "Kashmir" to come out of my speakers and choke me like the monster it is. Instead what I heard was very dull and flat. Probably going to plunk down a decent chunk of coin for an older pressing on vinyl one day if I find a nice copy.

Not trying to be negative, just being honest.

 

Just buy the 1987 CD or MO LP, no decent chunk of coin necessary.

 

How do you normally set your EQ?

 

Lots of low, easy on the middle, a little more than average high.

 

Do you ever try what the mastering engineer did....or do you always re-EQ?

 

I can't speak on any vinyl reissues, but the most recent CD reissues are great imo.
no balls dropped there